Courts Archives - 51ÊÓƵ Health News /topics/courts/ 51ÊÓƵ Health News produces in-depth journalism on health issues and is a core operating program of 51ÊÓƵ. Wed, 30 Sep 2026 19:11:42 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.8.10 /wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2023/04/kffhealthnews-icon.png?w=32 Courts Archives - 51ÊÓƵ Health News /topics/courts/ 32 32 257378068 After Failed Execution, Health Workers Say State’s Rules Flout Medical Ethics /health-industry/death-penalty-lethal-injection-execution-doctors-tennessee-carruthers-christa-pike/ Tue, 29 Sep 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2290583

This story describes a lethal injection procedure used in state executions.

In May, a group of healthcare workers spent about an hour trying to establish complete IV access so they could inject Tony Carruthers, an inmate at the Riverbend Maximum Security Institution in Nashville, Tennessee, with a lethal dose of sedative.

Maria DeLiberato, an attorney for Carruthers, was in the room. She said the workers stuck his arms and feet with needles, to no avail. A doctor then tried to insert a central line through his collarbone and shoulder. That didn’t work, either.

Carruthers groaned in pain and blood oozed from puncture wounds, DeLiberato said in a news briefing.

After more than an hour, Gov. Bill Lee called the warden, ordering him to halt the execution attempt. He later granted Carruthers a one-year reprieve.

Now, as another approaches, doctors and nurses in the state say they want medical professionals removed from the execution process. They’ve also joined defense attorneys and nine Republican state lawmakers in demanding a moratorium on the death penalty and an overhaul of the state’s execution methods.

The doctors’ arguments echoed those the American Medical Association has made and in its code of ethics.

Tennessee is where the death penalty is legal, according to the Death Penalty Information Center, a nonprofit that offers data and analysis on issues surrounding capital punishment.

Governors in four of those states have halted all executions, citing and , such as being unable to obtain lethal injection drugs amid pharmaceutical companies’ refusal to sell them for use in executions. Lethal injection is still the primary nationwide, but some states may use , a , or .

Since the beginning of 2020, 170 people have been executed in 17 states, with most occurring in Florida, Texas, and Oklahoma. In that time, six states have had , according to the , which defines those as executions that include a departure from the protocol because of unanticipated problems and that cause more pain for the prisoner than anticipated, whether they ultimately end with a death or not. Several of the stories read like Carruthers’ — protracted but ultimately failed attempts to establish IV access.

Tennessee Health Workers’ Concerns

The IV team gave up on trying to place a typical line into Carruthers after several failed attempts, according to DeLiberato’s account. , physician Mark Fowler, a contractor for the state’s prison system, then tried to place a central line in a deeper vein. That’s a quasi-surgical procedure in which a plastic tube is inserted in the chest, groin, or neck. Fowler used a series of syringes, trying to insert the tube under Carruthers’ collarbone and then through his shoulder.

In an , Fowler said he hadn’t done such a procedure in the 12 years since he had stopped working in an emergency room, and didn’t know that placing a central line could be among his execution duties.

Fowler told NPR by phone on Sept. 24 that “the doctor does not participate in the execution. The only thing the doctor does is declare the person dead.” He did not have further comment.

Two months after the halted lethal injection, more than 40 doctors and nurses to Lee, calling on the Republican governor to pause executions and redesign the protocol to omit health workers from the process.

The letter said that Tennessee’s rules requiring the participation of pharmacists, physicians, and other healthcare workers in executions are at odds with medical ethics, as well as guidelines explicitly laid out by groups such as the American Medical Association. The doctors are to preserve life when there is hope of doing so and bars participation in executions.

“This means that the health care professionals who agree to take part in Tennessee’s executions are those willing to set aside their professional ethics,” the letter to Lee reads. “The problems that we have seen, such as in Mr. Carruthers’s case, are the predictable result of working with such unscrupulous actors.”

John Greer, a retired Nashville hematologist, said in a news conference about the letter that he wasn’t surprised the central line placement went awry.

“Placing a central line is not just sticking a needle in a person’s arm,” he said.

Greer said the doctor has to tap a large vessel above the heart. He said that it’s a risky procedure in which an error could cause a collapsed lung or heavy bleeding — and that only those with specific training and routine practice should attempt.

“And I cannot imagine that there would be someone who’s doing these routinely who would be involved in this procedure,” Greer said.

Some Republican state senators also hold on executions and an overhaul of the process, saying that “incompetent administration” of capital punishment gives its critics more ammunition.

This summer, Lee said he didn’t want a pause.

“The Department of Correction did exactly what they should,” he said. “It should not affect executions in the future.”

“It’s one of the most difficult things that we do in this state,” Lee said later. “But I am committed to making sure that it is done in the way that it should be.”

The state’s lethal injection protocol orders the prison to keep a curtain over the media witnesses’ viewing window until the IVs are established, so none of them could offer a visual account of the failed execution attempt.

A has been filed has been filed by the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press and news outlets including NPR member station WPLN. The lawsuit argues the lack of transparency during the IV placement process obscures problems like the ones that happened in Carruthers’ case.

There’s a broad understanding in the U.S. that the medical establishment doesn’t participate in executions, said , director of the Center for Bioethics and Humanities at the University of Colorado’s medical school.

“We came out of World War II with a whole bioethics and medical ethics enterprise that is really strongly opposed to medicine serving as an arm of the state and using specialized medical skills to hurt people or kill people,” Wynia said.

A history of medical abuses by government doctors — such as and unethical studies of in the U.S., and in Nazi Germany — forged that consensus, he said.

Wynia mentioned other nations where medical professionals still participate in executions.

“But they are, you know, Iran and Saudi Arabia and Russia, sort of authoritarian states, where medicine is an arm of the government,” Wynia said. “Medical involvement in executions ends up happening because medicine is unable to say, ‘No, we don’t do that.’”

Upcoming Execution

On Sept. 30, Tennessee is scheduled to execute Christa Pike, who was 18 years old when she and her boyfriend killed Colleen Slemmer.

Pike’s attorneys this year raised several concerns that the state’s lethal injection protocol would violate her rights. Among them is their contention that because she suffers from a platelet disorder, it’s likely she will need a central line placed. They also argued that she was at risk of needless suffering, alleging Carruthers’ execution showed that Fowler — who has that he will oversee Pike’s execution — is incompetent at placing central lines.

In June, they put all of those concerns to the Tennessee Supreme Court, asking for a special investigator to collect evidence and hold hearings to determine whether they warranted an order to delay her execution and design a method for only her.

The court did appoint a special investigator, Senior Judge Mark Ward. He held a series of hearings in Knoxville last month. Ward said he didn’t believe Pike’s rights would be violated by the process and submitted to the court.

On Sept. 23, the Tennessee Supreme Court , agreeing with Ward, saying none of the concerns amounted to a constitutional violation. On Sept. 28, Lee announced he would not grant her clemency.

This article is from a partnership that includes , , and 51ÊÓƵ Health News.

51ÊÓƵ Health News is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at 51ÊÓƵ—an independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 51ÊÓƵ Health News and is republished here under a .

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2290583
Healthcare a Vague but Potent Issue for Election 2026 /podcast/what-the-health-464-midterm-election-obamacare-fraud-september-24-2026/ Thu, 24 Sep 2026 19:05:21 +0000 /?p=2289154&post_type=podcast&preview_id=2289154 The Host
Julie Rovner photo
Julie Rovner 51ÊÓƵ Health News Read Julie's stories. Julie Rovner is chief Washington correspondent and host of 51ÊÓƵ Health News’ weekly health policy news podcast, "What the Health?" A noted expert on health policy issues, Julie is the author of the critically praised reference book "Health Care Politics and Policy A to Z," now in its third edition.

Healthcare, in particular its rising costs, is a key issue for voters in both parties this fall. But lawmakers are offering a variety of remedies on the campaign trail, suggesting that neither party has an agreed-upon approach.

Meanwhile, the Trump administration has apparently backed off a plan — for now — to create a political board to review scientific grant awards from the National Institutes of Health. The pause came after public complaints from Senate Appropriations Committee Chair Susan Collins of Maine, who is fighting to retain her seat and, possibly, maintain the GOP majority in the upper chamber.

This week’s panelists are Julie Rovner of 51ÊÓƵ Health News, Tami Luhby of CNN, Joanne Kenen of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Politico Magazine, and Sarah Jane Tribble of 51ÊÓƵ Health News.

Panelists

Tami Luhby photo
Tami Luhby CNN
Joanne Kenen photo
Joanne Kenen Johns Hopkins University and Politico
Sarah Jane Tribble photo
Sarah Jane Tribble 51ÊÓƵ Health News Read Sarah's stories.

Among the takeaways from this week’s episode:

  • A new 51ÊÓƵ-AP rural-voter polling project found that affordability issues are central concerns in rural America. Overall, 48% of rural voters say the economy is worse off than it was at the start of President Donald Trump’s term, and healthcare is one of the key pain points. Findings also indicate that among rural voters — historically a strong Trump constituency — about half still approve of the president’s job performance. Some of these voters, though, said they may sit this election out. That’s notable because the midterms are often determined by who shows up.
  • The Trump administration is pushing its anti-fraud agenda as an election issue, using it as a counternarrative to Democrats’ complaints that Republicans’ refusal to extend covid-era Affordable Care Act subsidies led to a large drop in ACA enrollment this year. This week, Vice President JD Vance announced that the administration was cutting 750,000 more enrollees from Obamacare, alleging they are fraudulently enrolled.
  • Despite early suggestions that the administration would back away from the anti-vaccine views pushed by Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., both he and Trump this past week continued to push anti-vaccine efforts. Kennedy was the keynote speaker at the conference of the anti-vaccine organization he helped found, while Trump in an Oval Office event suggested that currently administered childhood vaccines be divided into five separate doses.

Plus, for “extra credit” the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week that they think you should read, too:

Julie Rovner: 51ÊÓƵ Health News’ “The Drugs and Devices Have Been on the Market for Years. But FDA-Ordered Studies Still Aren’t Done,” by David Hilzenrath.

Tami Luhby: The Wall Street Journal’s “,” by Liz Essley Whyte.

Joanne Kenen: Slate’s “,” by Molly Olmstead.

Sarah Jane Tribble: Stat’s “,” by John Wilkerson.

Also mentioned in this week’s podcast:

  • 51ÊÓƵ Health News and The Associated Press’ “Economic Frustration Tests Trump’s Standing With Rural Voters, New 51ÊÓƵ-AP Poll Finds,” by Sarah Jane Tribble, Ali Swenson, and Linley Sanders.
  • Axios’ “,” by Caitlin Owens and Adriel Bettelheim.
  • The Washington Post’s “,” by Dan Diamond and Riley Beggin.
  • The Washington Post’s “,” by Dan Diamond and Riley Beggin.
  • 51ÊÓƵ’s “,” by Matt McGough, Lynne Cotter, Justin Lo, Imani Telesford, Ashley Ferguson, Avni Gupta, and Juliette Cubanski.
Click to open the transcript Transcript: Healthcare a Vague but Potent Issue for Election 2026

[Editor’s note: This transcript was generated using transcription software. It has been edited for style and clarity.] 

Julie Rovner: Hello, from 51ÊÓƵ Health News and WAMU Public Radio in Washington, D.C. Welcome to What the Health? I’m Julie Rovner, chief Washington correspondent for 51ÊÓƵ Health News. And, as always, I’m joined by some of the best and smartest health reporters covering Washington. We’re taping this week on Thursday, Sept. 24, at 10 a.m. As always, news happens fast, and things might have changed by the time you hear this. So here we go. Today we are joined via video conference by Tami Luhby of CNN. 

Tami Luhby: Hello. 

Rovner: Joanne Kenen of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Politico Magazine. 

Joanne Kenen: Hi, everybody. 

Rovner: And my 51ÊÓƵ Health News colleague Sarah Jane Tribble. 

Sarah Jane Tribble: Good to be here. 

Rovner: No interview this week, but plenty of news. So let’s dive right in. We’re less than six weeks away from the midterm elections, and healthcare, particularly its rising cost, is shaping up as a top issue for voters. Sarah, I want to start with you this week because you’re part of a new polling project that 51ÊÓƵ is doing with the AP, looking at rural voters. What did our new poll find about rural voters and their views on healthcare? 

Tribble: Yeah. Well, the big headline is that 48% of rural voters believe the economy is worse off now, and that leads into healthcare because their key pain points are, not surprisingly, gas, groceries, and healthcare. Those all rank right up above 60% of those who are polled. They polled about 2,200 roughly rural Americans across the U.S. in August, mid-August. So this is a very fresh poll, only focused on rural Americans, which, as we know, is a key voting bloc for [President Donald] Trump and the Republican Party. 

Rovner: So … the rural voters tend to be more heavily Republican, right? 

Tribble: Yeah, they tend to skew Republican. Yep. 

Rovner: But there are fewer of them. So, but they’re a key voting bloc. … What did they find in terms of, you know, their continued support for President Trump and Republicans in general? 

Tribble: Yeah. So, you know, it was an interesting survey in the nuance. And what I love about this, and I’ve been covering rural America for four or five years now, exclusively, and there is a lot of nuance in rural America. It’s not a monolith, right? There’s lots of different people. So, while 48% of rural voters believe the economy is worse off now, about half also still approve of Trump’s job performance. And so what we’re finding is the Republicans — I talked to one expert, Tim Slack at the Louisiana State University. He’s a sociology professor. He’s written some books. What he said was he expects Republicans to sit this one out. And we talked to an array of Republicans, and that’s sort of what we heard. And you’ll have to read our story, but that’s pretty much what’s in there. 

Rovner: I will link to the story. But that’s really important because I mean one of the things we know about midterms, it’s not just who supports who and who opposes who, but who actually shows up to vote, right? 

Tribble: Right. Yeah. And what was really interesting for me, personally — and it’s, like, one of my colleagues and I were talking, and he was like, “You have a front-row seat to the elections,” because, you know, rural Americans, they too tend to come out to vote. They skew older, and they tend to be voters, right? But when I talked to the Democrats, they were certainly going to the polls. They definitely knew who they were voting for. But the Republicans I talked to, for the most part, were very sort of like, Well, I’ll definitely vote for this Republican, but maybe not my Senate seat, because I’m not happy with them. So it was a really interesting sort of pause that they would give. 

Rovner: So yeah, it’s an early indication, as we say. Well, healthcare is also playing a role in several high-profile Senate races. Michigan, of course, is a top one, pitting Democrat Abdul El-Sayed, a longtime backer of “Medicare for All,” against Republican Mike Rogers, a former House member who is touting price transparency as his health platform. But health is also showing up in Iowa, where Republican Rep. Ashley Hinson says she’ll fight Big Insurance, while Democrat Josh Turek says he’ll fight Big Pharma. And in Ohio, where Democratic former senator and Affordable Care Act sponsor Sherrod Brown is pushing to rein in insurance company denials, while Republican opponent Jon Husted is both vowing to overhaul the Affordable Care Act and restore the expanded subsidies that expired last year, at least temporarily. So it looks like , but in many different pieces. Am I sort of reading this right? 

Kenen: I think, rather than being a healthcare election in great big capital letters — which we’ve all lived through a number of those, both in the primaries and in the generals — I think it’s falling under this larger affordability issue. Like, I think that it now has a whole bunch of dollar signs instead of vowels. And I think healthcare is a big concern for people. We hear about it every day, but it’s part of this longer, Oh my God, life is just too, too, too expensive. And then there’s also this big … distrust of big things, including Big Pharma, Big Insurance, big everything. Right? At the same time, this is a really fast-moving political environment. Well, we all know that since, you know, by the end of the day, it feels like 20 years. And the issue, which started out as the data center issues; it’s now a larger existential fear of AI, and what is going to be done about it, and who is afraid. So this is a really shifting election. Like, what is going to motivate people? And what happens is even more un- … I mean, elections are unpredictable by definition, and this is going to be … like, if it was right today, the Democrats would be extremely happy. But who knows how many news cycles we go through between today and tomorrow? So yes, it’s a healthcare election, but we’re not calling it a healthcare election. 

Rovner: I was more thinking that it’s … 

Kenen: I mean, existential, getting wiped out is a health issue! 

Rovner: I was more thinking, though, that neither party actually has a health platform. I’m sort of struck by how Democrats and Republicans are all talking about health, but they’re all talking about different pieces of it, because we know that within each party there are differences in what they want to do about healthcare. 

Luhby: Right, and I think that’s one of the main issues. I mean, the Democrats are talking about how they want to extend the expired Affordable Care Act premium subsidies, which caused a lot of premiums to go up for many millions of people, but they also want to reverse the Medicaid cuts and the [One] Big Beautiful Bill. But then you also have the other side, where they’re talking about Medicare for All among the progressives, so they’re sort of split within themselves, and they don’t have exactly a unified message. And the Republicans are on the ropes this year on healthcare, as they have been in other elections. And this year, you know, they don’t want to highlight all of the cuts that they’ve made. So they’re highlighting, you know, their efforts to fight fraud. We saw [Vice President JD] Vance’s announcement earlier this week, and they’re touting, many of them are touting the Rural Health Transformation Fund, the $50 billion fund that was in the Big Beautiful Bill, without saying that the Medicaid cuts are going to affect rural America far more than the transformation fund will help them. 

Tribble: Yeah, one of the interesting findings in the research study — so, this Rural Health Transformation Program is something I’ve been following pretty closely — and one of the interesting findings in it for rural America is they pretty much hadn’t heard of it. 

Rovner: So for all of that effort! 

Luhby: Yeah, that’s surprising because so many of the candidates in that, you know, area are touting it on the trail. 

Tribble: Yeah, well, and at the same time, though, they also pretty much hadn’t heard of Medicaid changes either. Even people I talked to who had kids enrolled in Medicaid said they were pretty much unaware — maybe some cuts were coming. I did talk to a former hospital worker who said, “Yeah, it’s going to hurt a lot of people.” But she was a Democrat. Most of the people I talked to were unaware of Medicaid, and they also were unaware of the Rural Health Transformation Program and its impact. So I don’t know where that leaves the Republicans, but their messaging just isn’t getting out there on at least the RHT. 

Rovner: Well, to pick up on what Tami … oh, Joanne, go ahead. 

Kenen: I think people are just very overwhelmed, like, I don’t think — it’s really hard to know, like, people have these gut feelings and these sort of ideological identities, but everybody’s so overwhelmed by everything right now. I even wonder with the polls, like, who even answers their cellphone for it? We already made the shift from landline to cellphones, right? I mean, everybody is just swamped, and some people have just tuned out, and some people just can’t absorb everything that’s out there. So I don’t think voters are that well informed about the facts. I think a lot of people vote on guts and, you know, sort of gut feelings, and I think that’s always been true to a certain extent. But … you can’t poll on whether people are paying attention to polls. 

Luhby: One thing that an expert told me a couple of years ago that I thought was really, you know, insightful was the fact that people see their gas prices every time they fill up or every time they pass the gas station. They see the increase in grocery prices every time they go to, you know, buy food or go to a restaurant or so. But they only see their healthcare increases when they need care, or maybe once a month for the premium. So, you know, I think you were right, Joanne, when you said that the healthcare is now sort of lumped into a larger issue of affordability. But the affordability crisis that people are really seeing daily or weekly are gas and groceries, not necessarily healthcare. 

Tribble: In my interviews, what I noticed was people — I would like call people, and they were … one guy was at the gas station who was filling up his truck, right? A grandmother talked about how much her groceries were and how her gas and grocery bill every week was $200, which was just a lot for just her, right, in Iowa. And so it’s very salient to them and very tangible, like you said, Tami, that those costs are right in front of them. And, frankly, it should not be overlooked that for a lot of people, they don’t pay attention to diesel prices, but diesel prices have a huge impact on people in rural America, especially, not only because they’re using it for their trucks and the farming equipment, but they just use it more. So these affordability issues, these pocketbook issues and concerns, the messaging on that is not positive for either party right now. 

Kenen: And you don’t have to message. You just have to pull out your wallet, right? I mean, all of us can afford our groceries, but I’m aware. I mean, when you go into the store, you see. I mean, I think even people who are not pressed are shopping differently, and thinking differently. So, I mean, I think people aren’t necessarily paying attention to the messaging, but they are paying attention to the lived experience, which, as Tami said, you see on every gas station every time you drive by. Even if you’re in an EV [electric vehicle], you’re aware of it. 

Rovner: So, also, as Tami said, the administration seems to be pushing its fraud agenda as its big health issue. As you mentioned, Vice President JD Vance had a press conference Tuesday to announce that the administration is canceling the ACA [Affordable Care Act] policies of more than three-quarters of a million people, who the administration suspects are fraudulently enrolled in the program. Now, one of their indications is that these enrollees haven’t filed a claim. But I did a little digging, and, according to our Peterson-51ÊÓƵ Health [System] Tracker, it’s not at all unusual for people not to file a claim. First of all, most people are healthy most of the time. The bottom half of the population only accounts for 3% of healthcare spending. By comparison, the top 5% account for 50% of healthcare spending. Also, those with the cheapest plans tend to have the biggest deductibles, and now the average Affordable Care Act deductible is nearly $4,000. So even if you do have a medical expense, you’re likely not to bother to file a claim that you know isn’t going to be covered. So I know fraud is one of the really big Republican answers to rising healthcare costs this year, but is it really good politics to announce you’re taking away people’s health insurance, like, the month before people go to the polls? 

Luhby: Well, I mean, again, they’re saying that they’re actually not taking away health insurance. If you listen to the press conference, both Vice President Vance and CMS [Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services] Administrator Mehmet Oz said that a lot of these people are phantom enrollees. That this is all just fraud. That brokers and agents, you know, seeking higher commissions, signed up people who don’t necessarily exist. And they argued that other people may not have known that they had ACA insurance, or they may not be eligible, so therefore they don’t qualify. Now, I’m not necessarily justifying that, but that’s what they’re arguing. They’re not saying they’re ripping it away from, you know, people who, you know, should be on the plans. And then, you know, they are taking some measures against fraud. They’re suspending brokers and agents who are suspected of fraud. They’re going to be more strict with the guidelines. But interestingly, they’re also putting a moratorium on new brokers and agents, which could make it harder for people to sign up in coming months. You know, as you said, Julie, open enrollment. Well, you had said it’s right before the election. It’s also right before open enrollment starts on Nov. 1. So, you know, I think there are probably a lot of brokers and agents, and, of course, the government navigators out there to help people. But, you know, it’s possible that some people may not be able to be helped as quickly because there is now this moratorium. But the discussion of the nonmedical claims, which Dr. Oz also really focused on, is coming from Paragon [Health Institute], which is run by Brian Blase, who was, you know, is a conservative health policy leader and was involved in the first Trump administration, and he’s definitely very involved in this administration as well. 

Rovner: And I actually saw some pushback about that, you know, how they are counting people who don’t file a claim. I saw some pushback from the insurance industry that said, you know, they’re double-counting some of these. If you’ve changed plans, if you, you know, even if you were only in a plan for a month and you didn’t file a claim, they’re looking at that as you having been enrolled in that plan all year. So yes, there definitely is some fraud. We’ve known this since my colleague Julie Appleby helped uncover what was going on back in, I think, 2023, definitely in 2024. The Biden administration addressed this; the Trump administration has also already addressed this. But it seems unlikely that they’re going to revoke, you know, 750,000 policies and all of those are going to be phantom enrollees, or people who didn’t know they had coverage. There’s going to be some number of those people who have insurance and assume they have insurance, or who assumed they had insurance and may go to use their insurance and find they no longer have it. 

Luhby: Right, and that is, I mean, people have definitely been concerned that some, you know, legitimate enrollees will be caught up on this. And you know that was a question that actually came up in the press conference, and they said, “Well, you know, we worked really hard. We sent FedEx letters. We tried to contact them. We knocked on doors. We went to their houses.” You know, I don’t know if they or the insurers actually did that, but yeah, there are people who are concerned that just giving people 30 days to respond and prove they’re real may not be enough. 

Kenen: On the politics level, there’s the two fighting messages, which is, you know, We’re getting rid of the crooks and the fraudsters, right? And then there’s the, more on the Democratic side, They’re taking, they’re ripping health insurance out of people’s hands. And the truth is, there’s, you know, Julie, you all just said, you know, there is fraud out there, and we all know that, and none of us are, I mean, we don’t want to be endorsing fraud. But there’s a policy reason, too. Some of these people who are supposedly not making claims are healthy. You know, like, they just didn’t get sick this year. Doesn’t mean they won’t get sick next year or be in a car accident, or what else? But right now, it’s good for insurance risk pools, it’s good for the ACA, to have healthy people in it. So the idea that we’re going to look for people who don’t have health claims and kick out the healthiest ones is just going to raise costs for the sick ones. It’s what they call the death spiral, right, or the insurance death spiral. So …  

Rovner: And it already is raising costs. We know that. 

Kenen: Right. Right. So, I mean, there’s something like, on a policy basis, yes, go for the fraud. Make sure it’s really fraud. Stop talking about the individual — although the CMS press release was balanced, it was really, it did not talk about crooked recipients. It really did talk … I went back and read it, because politicians talk about it differently. But the CMS press release was about brokers and fraud on the business side. It wasn’t blaming the individuals. But people hear “fraud,” and, you know, get away from that. Figure out where the fraud is and where the need is and what the smart economic policy — knowing what we know about insurance — is, and don’t do things that are going to raise costs as you scream “fraud.” 

Tribble: I guess the question I had actually was, you know, I did not cover this announcement, and, Tami, it sounds like maybe you did, but did they say they were cutting subsidies, or are they canceling the arrangements with the individuals? Like, are they working with the insurance companies, or are they just canceling? I don’t quite understand the actual practical implication of it, basically, what’s happening. 

Luhby: That’s also one thing that’s not 100% clear. 

Rovner: Yeah, I went back and watched, and yeah, it was all a little bit vague. So, we will see how this plays out. But I guarantee there are going to be people who are not fraudulent who are going to get caught up in this, because there always are. All right. 

Kenen: And there’s some people who don’t exist. I mean, there probably really are some phantoms. 

Rovner: And absolutely, I mean, I’m sure there are a lot of phantoms. I don’t doubt that. 

Tribble: And before you leave the topic, Julie, I think it bears pointing out that all of this is happening, this announcement comes just as people are looking at that open enrollment and looking at their premiums and deductibles and copays going up on the marketplace as well. So it’s just an onslaught against these ACA plans at this point. 

Rovner: That’s right. And one of the things we know is that it’s not the greedy insurance companies, as some politicians are saying. Healthcare costs are going up, and therefore premiums across the board in the ACA, in Medicare, in employer health insurance, premiums are going up everywhere. We’re seeing that this year.  

All right, moving on. Over the summer, we talked about a regulation from the White House Office of Management and Budget that would impose a layer of political oversight over the grant process, pretty much across the government. Congress has blocked that regulation, at least until December. But late last week, The Washington Post reported that the administration was preparing an executive order to create a political oversight committee just for grants from the National Institutes of Health, basically trying to ensure that all biomedical research funding advances the president’s priorities. It appears, as of Wednesday, the administration is backing off on that, after Senate Appropriations Committee Chair Susan Collins of Maine, who’s battling to keep her seat and with it the possible Republican majority in the entire Senate, she complained publicly about this. But what would it mean if the administration actually follows through with such an overt politicization of the scientific grant process? 

Tribble: I mean the power to veto the awards that the National Institutes of Health gives, the huge research portfolio that they have, and use politics to veto that, I mean, it’s just a really interesting battle going on because [NIH Director Jay] Bhattacharya, he, you know, he has long been an advocate of some of these policies that, or these research programs, that are focused on minority populations. So it’s interesting to watch play out. It’ll be interesting to see what the next step is for the administration. 

Rovner: Yeah, I mean, according to several news sources, I think this was , there was a big fight in the Oval Office last week with Jay Bhattacharya, the head of NIH, a former researcher who’s received NIH grants, and Russell Vought, the head of the Office of Management and Budget, who’s behind this effort to put a political layer of approval on top of the grant-making process. And, according to the stories, Vought won. Although now … after Susan Collins wrote a strongly worded letter, that I actually snidely said, “Well, this isn’t going to have much impact.” Clearly, it did. So I was wrong. And again, as I point out, Collins is also is embattled right now and needs to keep her seat. And it would behoove the administration for Collins to keep her seat and keep the Republican majority. But, you know, there seems to be a lot of pushing and pulling in this administration about, you know, how much they want to try and basically take away Congress’ ability to determine how this money gets spent. It’s $47 billion for NIH every year, and Congress has long, you know, bipartisanly, maintained that they get to determine how that money is spent, not the administration. They say, You’re going to spend it this way. The administration’s job is to do that. 

Kenen: The other thing is this fight, you know, which Collins has won for now, this panel overseeing your final review of grants, is not the politicization of science. The politicization of science started on Jan. 20 of 2025. NIH grants have been cut. We’ve all seen the wars. You know, like, “wars” is not too strong a word between the administration and leading research universities. The funding that’s been cut. Those are very NIH-funded institutions — Harvard being the one that’s sort of most in the headlines consistently, but it’s not just Harvard. There’s a list of banned words that if, you know, “diversity” and things like that, that you can’t get funded for. So there’s all sorts of politicization of science that has already occurred, that has been, is occurring every single day. This would have taken it to another level. Collins, for now, has won, and she has some — there’s a few other voices speaking up. I noticed that Sen. [Dave] McCormick, from — I believe … I’m saying his name right, Julie, correct me. I’m going to say that again. If it’s wrong, tell me later. I believe Sen. McCormick of Pennsylvania, a Republican of Pennsylvania, has and some statements saying, you know, science is important. Science cures. Science also is great for our economy. Science is a driver of … the ROI [return of investment] on NIH is high. So the politicization isn’t starting. … This was an attempt to escalate it, and we’ll see where it goes. I mean, Collins has been pretty consistent on this. She did get the temporary blockage of related proposals … 

Rovner: The regulation, yeah. 

Kenen: Yeah. So this has been a consistent issue for her, and, you know, I think she’s been successful so far. 

Rovner: Well, I think, and I’m so glad that you said that. You know, this all, the politicization of science started when this administration, you know, took office because I think that’s been one of the undercovered stories, really, of last year and this year, about how the nation’s entire biomedical research establishment is struggling under not just the cuts and the delays imposed by the administration, but the uncertainty and their inability to plan. The Harvard Crimson has two interesting stories this week related to this. In one, the Harvard School of Public Health is considering approaching some major health corporations, including UnitedHealthcare and CVS/Aetna, to help make up for the federal funding cuts that they’ve seen. Just two days later, the Crimson reported that three current and former Harvard researchers, one each from the medical school, the School of Public Health, and the Kennedy School of Government, are all leaving Harvard to go to Canadian universities. We’ve talked about a potential brain drain before, as European universities kind of upped their recruiting of American scientists. Are we actually seeing this exodus start? I mean, biomedical research, as you pointed out, Joanne, you know, the return on investment for biomedical research in this country has been huge. This is an enormous and bipartisan engine of economic development in this country, and people are sort of not paying attention as it’s kind of crumbling. 

Kenen: It’s not just scientists either. I mean, first of all, it’s not just Harvard. There are academics from across the country. I do not have the numbers. I can’t cite you an … accurate number. But scientists, researchers, and the social sciences and humanities too. I mean, there are academics, not just the international ones, who have to go home for some of the students, but the American academics in science and non-science have left the country in numbers that are worth paying attention to. Although it’s not like they’ve all gotten into, like, you know Noah’s Ark. … But the other thing is it’s not just future science. They have cut large numbers of clinical trials that were already underway, which means that we’ve lost the investment we already made, and that people, you know, who’ve been given their time and volunteered for these trials also don’t get, they got cut off from them. So, I mean, I just — it’s not a left-right thing. I just don’t understand the common sense of stopping a cancer trial midway or stopping an Alzheimer’s trial or anything else midway and throwing out the money and the knowledge, because these are not partisan. Republicans and Democrats agree that cancer is bad, you know, like Republicans and Democrats, and I dare say independents, don’t want to get Alzheimer’s or see their loved ones get Alzheimer’s. I’ve just never totally understood why this has been seen by top officials in the Trump administration as a good thing. 

 

Tribble: I mean, I think we need to go back to what you said, Joanne, which is January 2025. There were two executive orders on “woke” things, right? Diversity, inclusion, and all that. And I have not been focused on these particular grants, but I’ve been writing about the Digital Equity Act from a broadband standpoint that affects, you know, tons of rural Americans and their ability to do telehealth, for example, and things like that. And that act has been under fire from President Trump, and they have been using those executive orders as a way to sort of attack not only science and research and the things that we watch here with the federal agencies, but across the board in the administration. If it’s considered a “woke” mandate, they’ve gone after it. So I think we do have to go back to that and look at those executive orders and say that’s the game plan. Right? And so I just wanted to note that. I do think these grants have been undercovered. I think this research has been undercovered. But I also think across the board with this administration, those executive orders have had a large impact. 

Rovner: Yeah, you know, we talk about how executive orders don’t have the power of law. Although, I will say, in this administration, executive orders have had a lot of power to actually do things, as we’ve pointed out, sometimes maybe not legally. You know, sometimes we’ve had courts step in to stop them. But this administration has always been: Do it first and ask permission later. All right, we’re going to take a quick break. We’ll be right back. 

So I am old enough to remember when we were told that Republican pollsters told the White House to stop talking about — and stop HHS [Health and Human Services] Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. from talking about — vaccines, because anti-vax sentiment wasn’t popular with voters. Well, that advice didn’t seem to age well. Last week, we had RFK Jr. giving the keynote at a conference of the group Children’s Health Defense. That’s the anti-vax organization he helped found. In his hourlong-plus speech, Kennedy told the group that it has a “strong and steadfast friend” in Donald Trump, among other things, and promised new studies into the effects of electromagnetic fields and contrails, the water vapor clouds emitted by jets. Meanwhile, Trump himself doubled down on his earlier vaccine comments — this time, urging the drugmakers divide regular doses of vaccines into five separate doses. It’s not clear which vaccines he was talking about. In an effort to reduce autism, this, despite the fact that vaccine doses are carefully tested already, and there is no evidence that any vaccine or combination of vaccines has anything to do with causing autism. Do they care more about the anti-vaccine base and maybe getting them out to vote, or do they just not care that much about the majority of voters who believe that vaccines are, on balance, you know, a good thing? 

Tribble: I mean, I think that they are out campaigning, right? Like they are worried about the midterms, and they have sent Kennedy out to rural areas, in particular, which is why I know about this, to campaign on this. He’s been in Iowa trying to draw that MAHA crowd. So the anti-vax movement is part of the Make America Healthy Again movement, and it’s true that more people tend to believe that they can favor Make America Healthy Again — they tend to be folks who are also in the Make America Great Again camp, too, and have that identity. So if they can gin up the base, then I think they’re going to try to do that before November. 

Rovner: Yeah, back to what we were talking about at the beginning. It’s all a matter of who turns out. 

Kenen: The health part of, not MAGA, but MAHA is not all anti-vax, right? And some surveys have shown that many of them do vaccinate their children. And they’re concerned about pesticides. They’re concerned about ultraprocessed foods. They’re concerned about other things that, you know, many people would actually agree on, although they may identify more with the MAHA movement. So even within MAHA … they don’t all agree with Kennedy on vaccines. But I mean, I agree with Sarah. The timing of this and the intensity of this, as people are dying from measles, which Kennedy says they’re not — I think they see that in certain counties or areas of the country, the rejuvenation of the anti-vax conversation and orders and so forth is probably a voter intensity issue for them. Trump has never called for no vaccines. Trump has never said polio vaccine was a fake. I mean, he hasn’t gone anywhere near. He’s really in that, sort of, we have to change how we vaccinate, rather than we don’t want any vaccinations. He’s the changing the dose, smaller, you know. And of course, he exaggerates it. You know, those of us who have kids, they’ve never had a syringe the size of a vat. We don’t put vats of chemicals into our children. … I mean, how would they fit? I mean, very small babies. You know, you can put the baby in a vat, but you can’t put a vat in a baby. I mean, I agree that the timing is very political, and, you know, there were rumors a few months ago — not even a few months ago — there were rumors a few weeks ago that Kennedy would be out after the elections, and that, you know, Oz might go in. Now, interestingly, Oz has gone on TV and said the measles vaccine is good. Your child, you know, there’s measles out there. Get your kid vaccinated. But he’s not as loud as Kennedy. 

Rovner: Or as visible. Well, meanwhile, as we are taping today, the president’s nominee to lead the Food and Drug Administration, White House health policy aide Heidi Overton, is appearing before the Senate HELP [Health, Education, Pensions, and Labor] Committee for her confirmation hearing. It’s only just starting, so we will pick up on what happened there next week.  

Next up are drug prices. President Trump last Friday held yet another event at which he bragged about lowering drug prices. But I keep wondering: Has he really? Yes, drug prices are down a bit — not the 80% or 90% that Trump likes to say. It’s more like 3%. And analysts say at least some of that is due to the Medicare negotiations that were put in place under President [Joe] Biden, but are just now taking effect. So it’s not at all clear how much is due to the deals the president says he’s striking with these drug companies. Public Citizen actually got hold of some of the documents, and the agreements are pretty vague. I guess the big question is whether the public will believe the president when he says he’s lowered drug prices or whether they’ll believe what they see when they go to the pharmacy counter. Back to, again, back to what we were saying earlier. You know, it’s hard to talk about gas prices going down when every time you get in your car and drive, you see them on a big sign. I mean, I guess drug prices might be a little bit easier because not everybody takes drugs. But I’m wondering whether the people who do are believing him when he says this. 

Luhby: Right, and this has been, you know, one of his mantras in the first administration as well as now. And I fact-checked both his comments on that drug prices have been down this year and that we have the lowest prices in the world now, which is another thing that he loves to say. He loves to say that he’s strong-armed Germany and France and other European countries to lower their drug prices, which …  

Rovner: No, to raise their drug prices. 

Luhby: I’m sorry, to raise their drug prices, right? That we’re benefiting because now other countries are paying more and, you know, shouldering more of the burden. And, you know, the international experts that I’ve spoken to say there’s no evidence of that. So no, generally … you mentioned that the drug prices are down a little bit, 3% That’s from the CPI [Consumer Price Index], from the inflation index. But, you know, most experts don’t use that. People I spoke to said that that’s a very faulty measure. It shows the total cost at the pharmacy, but that’s also what insurers pay. So, you know, whether people are paying less, it’s hard to say. And as we know … what people pay at the pharmacy counter depends on their insurance. I mean, yes, there’s deductible issues and all of that, and copay issues, but, you know, that’s a yearlong contract typically, and it depends. And even today, in fact, showing that on TrumpRx — they looked at, I think, 32 drugs, and only about half of them actually did have lower prices than, you know, another comparable country. So it’s very murky. We did get some details from the Pfizer and Eli Lilly disclosures that Public Citizen got, but it’s also very heavily redacted. And [The] Washington Post, that , said that they omit key financial terms, the negotiated prices for drugs, and other provisions, making it difficult to independently assess the agreement’s values to taxpayers or the companies. You know, and I’m sure also to patients. So, you know, it’s unclear. 

Rovner: And another thing we know is that people who follow the stock prices of these companies have suggested that it’s not going to hurt the companies very much, which suggests that it’s not going to lower the prices very much. I mean, you can’t — again, we don’t know a lot of specifics, but that’s certainly an indicator that the companies don’t think that they’re going to have to lower their prices enough to hurt their profitability. Let’s put it that way. 

Luhby: Right. Some companies have mentioned some headwinds from U.S. pricing and MFN [most-favored-nation], but it’s not been a huge issue for them. 

Rovner: Yeah. 

Luhby: And from the beginning, I mean, you would think that when Pfizer started this out in September, oh, you know, if this was really a huge issue for Pfizer, their stock price would have plummeted, and, you know, that’s not the case. 

Rovner: It has not. Finally, this week, an update on that very sad and strange surrogacy case in California and Alaska and Texas. That’s where a surrogate, who was carrying a baby for a couple, wanted to keep the baby who was born with severe cardiac birth defects. That was after she, the surrogate, refused a request from the couple to terminate the pregnancy after the heart defect was detected in utero. This week, Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan refused to overturn a lower-court decision allowing the baby to remain in the custody of his biological parents. This may or may not be the last word in this particular case, but I’m sure this is an issue that eventually will get heard by the high court. And good luck to the justices sorting it all out. You know, one of the difficulties that we have seen with some of these cases, with, you know, who really are parents? Is it the people who provide the genetic material or the people who carry the fetus determine what are we going to do when we have artificial wombs? And I think we’re going to go on. And Joanne, did you want to add something? 

Kenen: Yeah, most of these are state laws. Most of these surrogate cases are basically a state law, and maybe we’ll see that change. But I also think it’s important to point out that this child, the baby, was born. It does, in fact, have a heart defect, and the biological parents who got the custody, according to the court, are taking care of the baby — I forgot whether it’s a he or she — in the hospital.  

Rovner: It’s a he. 

Kenen: It’s a he, in the hospital getting the heart care. I don’t think the prognosis is great, but they are doing everything you can to make the baby as healthy and comfortable — from the press reports, I’m not in that hospital room. But this is a family that did not want to have a child with this really serious heart defect born. That is a fact. They wanted the abortion. They didn’t succeed. The courts prevented them from getting the abortion. The woman, the carrier, the gestational carrier, won that. But it is important to note that this couple is doing what I think all of us would, you know, agree: The child is getting medical care. 

Rovner: Yes. They have a baby, and they’re doing everything they can to keep him alive and get him well. 

Kenen: Other decisions get made down the road, and it’ll be their decision, you know. Hopefully, it’ll have as good an outcome as possible. It’s obviously not easy for anyone who has — I have never had a seriously ill child, but I have had friends who have. It’s unfortunate that the extra legal battle gets imposed on top of what’s, obviously, this is a family that, this is a couple who really wanted kids. You know, surrogacy is not cheap or easy or emotionally, you know, it’s difficult. And this is not a happy story for anybody. 

Rovner: It is not. All right. Well, that is this week’s news. Now it is time for our extra-credit segment. That’s where we each recognize a story we read this week we think you should read, too. Don’t worry if you miss it. We will post the links in our show notes on your phone or other mobile device. Tami, why don’t you go first this week? 

Luhby: OK. Well, my extra credit is an exclusive Wall Street Journal story titled “,” by Liz Essley Whyte. And, you know, we were talking about where the grant money goes. Well, some of it apparently is going for RFK security. So she noted in the story that the cost of the health secretary’s security jumped from about $10 million in the last fiscal year to $17 million this year. And what she said was striking was that HHS told Congress earlier this year that it was moving about $12 million from its Office of Minority Health to help cover the increased security costs. Now, Liz spoke to some internal unnamed sources, who told her that the secretary’s office had discretionary funds that it could have used instead, but it took the $12 million from the minority health fund to deal with across-the-board budget cuts. Now, I didn’t actually realize that this Office of Minority Health was created by President Ronald Reagan after a landmark report found that Black infants in the U.S. were more likely to die than white babies, and you know, among other disparities. And this, the office actually funds grants and efforts to close these gaps. Its budget, its annual budget, is about $74 million. So the other thing that the story noted, as we were discussing, a little different than NIH, but it said that HHS notified 16 nonprofits and universities in August that grants from the Office of Minority Health had been canceled. They were telling the nonprofits that the cancellations were due to limited funding and new priorities, and those new priorities include the root causes of infertility and reproductive health conditions, including low sperm count and erectile dysfunction. So that’s the story. I will say that an HHS spokeswoman told The Wall Street Journal: Secretary Kennedy faces much more serious, a different security environment, and that his protection reflects the threats he faces, his extensive travel, and the security required for him to safely carry out his duties nationwide. 

Rovner: OK. Joanne. 

Kenen: My friend, colleague, and co-author, Josh Sharfstein at [Johns] Hopkins, flagged this story for me, and he might have used as many exclamation points as I usually use in my email to him. It’s a Slate story. It’s quite a story. A Slate story by Molly Olmstead, and the headline is just called “” This is a long, involved story where each paragraph gets darker and more mind-boggling than the prior paragraph. The medbeds, in case any of you don’t know, are these fictitious things that Trump tweeted about — or maybe it was, I think, it was Truth Social — about a year ago, and then deleted it the next day. There’s never been an explanation. Medbeds do not exist, but they are believed, by people who think they exist, to cure all illnesses and make us all whole, healthy, probably happy … 

Rovner: And long lives!  

Kenen: … etc. Right. It’s — as the author, she calls it — a dark fantasy that we will be pain-free, that we will have forbidden knowledge, etc., etc. … Molly Olmstead decided to trace where did this come from. And her first thought was like QAnon, and then, so there’s a section about QAnon, and then .. she goes back. It wasn’t QAnon. Then she goes through New Age. She went to a yurt in Sedona, and she learned about subatomic tachyon, I’m not pronouncing it, particles, and it turns out it wasn’t even New Age. Without being a spoiler, it actually goes back to some people with rather ahead-of-their-time crazy beliefs in the 1960s! So just go read it. 

Rovner: Yeah, it’s quite the read. Sarah. 

Tribble: First, I just want to say, you know, reporters like the ones you’re mentioning are just amazing. Like, the work they’re doing and that digging into the agency spending and following those trails, and that’s why I picked this other one, John Wilkerson at Stat. My extra credit is “.” Now, the reason I really like this story is John knows Medicare. He knows MedPAC [the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission]. If you’ve ever sat in that room watching MedPAC discuss things, and then you talk to the experts … find out that Medicare Advantage was supposed to save Medicare money, but never has. Right? I say go read this story. It’s a very interesting analysis, basically, of how it could help insurers, but may not actually decrease Medicare Advantage payments at all anyway. So it’s just another ball down that road, but it’s definitely worth following. And kudos to John for writing it in a way that’s a fun read. 

Rovner: My story is also from a colleague who likes to dig for things. It’s from my 51ÊÓƵ Health News colleague and cubicle mate, David Hilzenrath. It’s called “The Drugs and Devices Have Been on the Market for Years. But FDA-Ordered Studies Still Aren’t Done.” It’s one of those stories that has been done before but needs to be repeated every so often: that when the FDA approves something with the requirement for postmarket follow-up, that follow-up often does not happen. The FDA has, for generations, tried to walk the fine line between getting promising treatments into the hands of patients as fast as possible while still ensuring that they are safe and effective. An analysis of FDA data found that nearly 600 postmarket studies that were supposed to have [been] done have been delayed, often by years. Which means not just that some products on the market may be causing problems, but even if they’re not, they might not actually be working, which wastes money and keeps patients sick. So, hats off to my colleagues who did this analysis, too. 

All right, that is this week’s show. Thanks to our editor this week, Stephanie Stapleton, and our producer-engineer, Francis Ying. A reminder: What the Health? is now available on WAMU platforms, the NPR app, and wherever you get your podcasts — as well as, of course, kffhealthnews.org. Also, as always, you can email us your comments or questions. We’re at whatthehealth@kff.org. You can still find me on X , or on Bluesky . Where do you folks hang around these days on the socials? Sarah? 

Tribble: I’m mostly on LinkedIn, actually. So look for me on LinkedIn: . 

Rovner: Joanne. 

Kenen: I’m more on LinkedIn than anywhere else, too: JoanneKenen on . I’m a little bit on , and I still haven’t fixed my Twitter authenticator. 

Rovner: Tami. 

Luhby: You can find me at . 

Rovner: We’ll be back in your feed next week. Until then, be healthy. 

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Outcome of Suit Against Department of Labor Could Boost Skimpy Employer Health Plans /courts/department-labor-employer-health-plans-aca-limited-partnership-settlement/ Wed, 16 Sep 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2283210 A long-running lawsuit challenging what it means to be an employee and therefore have access to work-based health plans is being closely watched by health policy analysts. Its outcome could spur the availability of lower-cost but potentially skimpier health coverage that skirts some consumer protections.

Court papers indicate a settlement in the case against the Department of Labor , although the parameters of any such deal are unknown.

It would come amid premium surges on Affordable Care Act marketplaces that have led millions to drop coverage this year. The Trump administration has also been sharply focused on expanding access to alternative coverage, such that avoid ACA rules on preexisting conditions and benefit requirements.

“Depending on what happens with the settlement, this could be an even bigger expansion,” said , director of the Center for Health Policy and the Law at the Georgetown University Law Center. “People are worried that it is the opening salvo into promoting junk plans that don’t meet the ACA requirements.”

The plaintiff, Data Marketing Partnership, against the Department of Labor in 2019, during the first Trump administration. It wants official recognition as an employer so it can continue to allow its limited partners to buy into a type of job-based health insurance that doesn’t have to comply with state insurance rules or offer coverage as robust as required under the ACA.

But to grasp the claim, one also has to understand how the coverage works.

A consumer shopping for health insurance may come across information online or from a marketer about this concept, sometimes called “limited partnership” coverage. The pitch? Buy insurance offered through Data Marketing Partnership and handled by LP Management Services. To qualify, the consumer must download an app that tracks their internet searches. The company could then sell that data.

Some potential consumers may be turned off by the thought of their internet searches being tracked, but others may find it appealing because it allows them to become a limited partner eligible to buy into the company’s employee health insurance plans. But can these partners be considered employees?

The court’s answer has potential implications for regulators and consumers. Some health policy and market experts warn that a green light could lead to a proliferation of aggressively marketed and potentially questionable insurance with limited recourse for consumers because the plans would be exempt from state oversight.

“If this took off, you logically could see the rise of a whole bunch of what, functionally, would be unregulated insurance companies,” said , who was the principal deputy assistant secretary of the Department of Labor’s Employee Benefits Security Administration during Joe Biden’s presidency and now runs his own consulting outfit.

No one knows if the department is going to change its long-running stance defending the case. But any settlement could add more uncertainty to insurance markets.

Already insurers are requesting double-digit increases in ACA premiums again next year, partly because declining enrollment often means that the healthiest policyholders are leaving. That trend could accelerate in coming years as more people are drawn into alternatives such as limited-partnership policies.

States Act as Federal Case Plays Out

The Department of Labor defended the case throughout the first Trump administration and the Biden era, issuing a sharply worded in early 2020 stating that people who simply download software to “capture data as they browse the Internet” are not “employees or bona fide partners.”

A district court judge in Texas, the ACA unconstitutional in a decision ultimately rejected by the Supreme Court, called the advisory opinion “” in a 2020 ruling in favor of the data marketer. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the largely upheld the lower court’s decision but ordered it whether someone who downloads software is either a “working owner” or a “bona fide partner.”

The employer-employee relationship is at the heart of the case because of a designed to help large, self-insured employers offer retirement and health benefits to workers without having to meet varying rules from multiple states.

That law — the Employee Retirement Income Security Act — allows such plans to avoid most rules set by the states, which generally regulate most other types of insurance and assist consumers who report problems with their policies. As self-insured employer plans, the policies also don’t have to comply with some ACA rules, such as the 10 broad categories of “essential health benefits.”

“If the case goes the wrong way, it could impact consumers or hamstring the states,” said Marie Grant, Maryland’s insurance commissioner.

Arguments over what constitutes an employer plan are not new, and other organizations have tried offering such coverage. Some states have taken action against purveyors of limited-partner policies.

Maryland in 2024 , The Vitamin Patch, for offering limited-partnership insurance after investigating complaints and determining it was not licensed to sell coverage in the state.

Washington in 2021 to stop offering its plans in the state and fined it $25,000.

and in 2024 warned consumers about this type of coverage.

“These plans do not provide comprehensive medical coverage and can leave consumers with large, unpaid medical bills,” according to Connecticut’s notice.

Maine’s announcement noted that entities offering these types of health insurance included The Vitamin Patch as well as Affiliated Workers Alliance, Consumer Data Partners, Employers Business Alliance, Socios Buenos, and Strategic Limited Partners.

State insurance commissioners in the Department of Labor case citing their concerns about losing the ability to enforce consumer protections.

“This is not a Republican-Democrat thing,” Khawar said. “It’s really a story about state authority, the way such authority would be significantly undermined in insurance markets.”

What’s the Risk?

Still, these limited-partnership plans are viewed by proponents as a needed additional choice for consumers, at potentially lower cost than ACA plans.

When the case was filed, attorneys general , for example, urged the Department of Labor to back Data Marketing’s request to designate its limited partners as employees. That would provide an option for people who “earn too much to qualify” for ACA subsidies and be an interim solution until the ACA could be repealed and replaced, they wrote. They argued that states would retain some regulatory authority and added that the Department of Labor, which oversees self-insured employer plans, could set requirements to “encourage” stable companies to enter the market.

Critics, the attorneys general wrote, might fear that ACA alternatives will draw away younger or healthier people, thus affecting those who remain, but they argued that had already happened.

Data Marketing’s attorneys emailed 51ÊÓƵ Health News that they could not provide a comment for this article because the case is in active litigation. Neither the White House nor the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, which oversees the ACA marketplaces, responded to questions from 51ÊÓƵ Health News about whether the Department of Labor has changed its stance and how the administration views limited-partnership health plans.

In court filings, however, Data Marketing said that without an employer designation, it would have to end the insurance coverage, affecting about 50,000 policyholders. That would also hurt its ability to generate revenue, it argued, because offering insurance is “a significant attractor” to get people to join its partnership and let it access their electronic data.

, who helped oversee ACA implementation in the Biden administration and is now a managing director at consultancy Manatt Health, had a different take. “The only reason why these sorts of products exist is because they aren’t beholden to consumer protection rules of the ACA and can essentially make money by attracting good risk, people who are healthy,” she said.

Maryland’s Grant echoed this warning, saying that proliferation of such plans could lead to even higher premiums in the ACA markets, if those who remain are older or sicker than those who leave.

Nineteen patient advocacy groups to the Department of Labor Aug. 11 urging it to continue its defense in the case, warning that a settlement that says such arrangements create an employer-employee relationship could “significantly” undermine “both state regulatory authority and decades of bipartisan efforts to promote stable, well-functioning health insurance markets.” Some of those groups in support of the department in 2021.

Days after the August letter, U.S. Rep. Bobby Scott (D-Va.), the ranking member of the House education and workforce committee, warned the department against increasing the availability of “questionable employment relationships” and the insurance they offer.

He cited reports of call centers’ misleading consumers “who think they are enrolling in comprehensive health insurance but instead sign up for junk coverage under the guise of creating an employment relationship with what the consumer believed to be a traditional health insurer.”

51ÊÓƵ Health News is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at 51ÊÓƵ—an independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 51ÊÓƵ Health News and is republished here under a .

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Anger Over Health Costs Clouds Midterms /podcast/what-the-health-462-affordability-high-costs-midterms-abortion-pill-september-10-2026/ Thu, 10 Sep 2026 19:05:00 +0000 /?p=2282675&post_type=podcast&preview_id=2282675 The Host
Julie Rovner photo
Julie Rovner 51ÊÓƵ Health News Read Julie's stories. Julie Rovner is chief Washington correspondent and host of 51ÊÓƵ Health News’ weekly health policy news podcast, "What the Health?" A noted expert on health policy issues, Julie is the author of the critically praised reference book "Health Care Politics and Policy A to Z," now in its third edition.

Affordability is top of mind for most voters this fall, and the high cost of healthcare is near the top of affordability complaints. And the news keeps getting worse: All indications are that insurance premiums will go up and benefits will go down in 2027.

Meanwhile, a U.S. appeals court this week heard arguments in a case that could severely limit the availability of the abortion pill mifepristone, not just in states with abortion bans but also in those where abortion is still legal.

This week’s panelists are Julie Rovner of 51ÊÓƵ Health News, Joanne Kenen of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Politico Magazine, Sandhya Raman of Bloomberg Law, and Amanda Seitz of 51ÊÓƵ Health News.

Panelists

Joanne Kenen photo
Joanne Kenen Johns Hopkins University and Politico
Sandhya Raman photo
Sandhya Raman Bloomberg Law
Amanda Seitz photo
Amanda Seitz 51ÊÓƵ Health News aseitz@kff.org Read Amanda's stories.

Among the takeaways from this week’s episode:

  • Inflation, rising rates of uninsured Americans, as well as industry consolidation are contributing to some of the steepest increases in healthcare costs since the early 2000s. Frustrations back then built momentum for passage of the Affordable Care Act. Today, they’re the backdrop for the midterm elections, though the GOP is focusing on fraud and most Democrats are campaigning on adjustments to existing programs such as the ACA and Medicaid.
  • Several recent news stories have shed light on controversies at the intersection of health and politics. Sen. Roger Marshall (R-Kan.), a physician who could lead the Senate’s health committee next year, is facing scrutiny for suing hundreds of patients over unpaid medical debts, some of whom were arrested for missing court dates. Other stories document allegedly disparaging remarks by Sen. John Fetterman (D-Pa.) to staff about meeting with representatives of a children’s hospital and, separately, a call by Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) for Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to be criminally investigated for allegedly lying to Congress.
  • Meanwhile, a federal appeals court in Louisiana continues to consider a case challenging regulations on the abortion pill mifepristone as President Donald Trump’s latest nominee to lead the Food and Drug Administration awaits confirmation.
  • And the fallout continues from two measles-related deaths in Pennsylvania, leaving Americans with further mixed signals about how to protect themselves and their children.

Also this week, Rovner interviews 51ÊÓƵ Health News’ Lauren Sausser, who wrote the latest “Bill of the Month,” about when a preventive service isn’t preventive enough to qualify for zero-cost coverage. If you have a bill that’s baffling, infuriating, or indecipherable, you can share it with us here.

Plus, for “extra credit” the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week that they think you should read, too: 

Julie Rovner: NBC News’ “,” by Mike Hixenbaugh.  

Sandhya Raman: Bloomberg Government’s “,” by Erin Durkin and Claire Hebert.  

Joanne Kenen: ProPublica’s “,” by Audrey Dutton.  

Amanda Seitz: 51ÊÓƵ Health News’ “A NY Hospital Tried To Close Its Birthing Center. This City United To Fight Back,” by Noam N. Levey and Hannah Norman, and Stat’s “,” by Daniel Payne.  

Also mentioned in this week’s podcast:

  • The Wall Street Journal’s “,” by Peter Loftus.
  • The New York Times’ “,” by Sarah Kliff.
  • The Wall Street Journal’s “,” by Will Hobson and Siobhan Hughes.
  • The Guardian’s “,” by Michelle R Smith.
  • Nature’s “,” by Max Kozlov.
  • ProPublica’s “,” by Andrea Suozzo and Agnel Philip.
Click to open the transcript Transcript: Anger Over Health Costs Clouds Midterms

[Editor’s note: This transcript was generated using transcription software. It has been edited for style and clarity.] 

Julie Rovner: Hello, from 51ÊÓƵ Health News and WAMU Public Radio in Washington, D.C. Welcome to What the Health? I’m Julie Rovner, chief Washington correspondent for 51ÊÓƵ Health News. And, as always, I’m joined by some of the best and smartest health reporters covering Washington. We’re taping this week on Thursday, Sept. 10, at 10 a.m. As always, news happens fast, and things might have changed by the time you hear this. So here we go. Today we are joined via video conference by Sandhya Raman of Bloomberg Law. 

Sandhya Raman: Hello, everyone. 

Rovner: Joanne Kenen of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Politico Magazine. 

Joanne Kenen: Hi, everybody. 

Rovner: And my colleague Amanda Seitz of 51ÊÓƵ Health News. 

Amanda Seitz: Hi, great to be here. 

Rovner: Later in this episode, we’ll have my interview with Lauren Sausser, who reported and wrote the latest 51ÊÓƵ Health News “Bill of the Month.” It’s about a breast cancer screening that’s not necessarily considered covered preventive care. But first, this week’s news. 

So, welcome to the sprint to the midterms. As we have talked about all year, affordability — or, to be more specific, unaffordability — is the topic that seems to be most on voters’ minds this fall. And healthcare is at or near the top of that list of things that voters are finding increasingly unaffordable. So the news from the past few weeks that healthcare costs are likely to go up even more next year, not only pushing up premiums but in many cases prompting employers to cut back on coverage, is probably not going to make consumers any happier. These are some of the steepest increases in healthcare costs that we’ve seen since the early 2000s —that’s when frustration prompted the debate that became the Affordable Care Act. What’s driving these increases, and what is it likely to lead to? 

Kenen: There’s multiple causes, right? We’re in an era — we’ve had high inflation overall. We … have had the number of insured people drop, which means there’s more uninsured, uncompensated care, which means the rest of us who do have insurance end up paying for it. Some people would argue that the consolidation — in fact, many people would argue — that the consolidation in the healthcare sector has added to costs. Private equity has been part of that consolidation, and their business model is, you know, there’s still research …  

Rovner: Their business model is to take money out of healthcare, basically. 

Kenen: And you know, I mean, some people would say that, you know, it’s not just profit; it’s also greed. That’s not true across the healthcare system. That’s not true about everybody. But I think you could see it. 

Rovner: It’s certainly a good place to make money these days. 

Seitz: I think, as far as what’s to come, too, Julie, we got a very significant signal this morning of how nervous the White House is about all of this. Axios is reporting that [President Donald] Trump wants to send $500 checks to a million enrollees across 30 states just ahead of the Nov. 3 midterm elections. So it just shows the timing here could not be worse. And that is kind of always the case when it comes to the election and open enrollment. But with those big increases we’re expecting, it’s only going to get worse in the coming weeks because people haven’t actually begun to preview those health insurance costs, what they’ll look like for next year. It’s not … it’s typically available around October for most employers and for the Medicare and ACA marketplace. So those prices are going to be landing in people’s inboxes and mailboxes right as they’re making choices about who they’re going to vote for, and it’s just not very good timing for this administration. 

Rovner: Darn that fall! Well, one of the things we’ve seen is it’s not just prices; employers are also dropping popular but expensive benefits like GLP-1 coverage or coverage for infertility treatment. Could that eventually drive prices down because providers of those benefits will have no choice if nobody has insurance for their products or services? Or are they just going to become unaffordable for all but the very rich in our K-shaped economy? 

Seitz: I think that’s certainly a concern, and again, going back to … this is just such a visible example of the affordability issue that people are talking about. People are paying more, and they’re getting less. And that is a frustration across our economy, but healthcare is such a blatant example of that happening. And there are questions: Will care be out of reach for people? I mean, we’re seeing that happen, obviously, in certain markets. In rural marketplaces, for example, it’s now, you know, in some places a luxury to have a doctor nearby that you can go to. So I certainly think that’s a concern. 

Kenen: I mean, it’s partly the way we’ve always measured prevention. It’s not that prevention doesn’t save money over the long haul. You know, there’s a lot of …. there’s dispute among the economists. There’s a lot of data that prevention in the long haul is a good investment, but that prevention isn’t, like, if I’m a health plan, I have no necessarily, you know, economic interest in making sure that you’re healthy in 20 years. You’re my client. You’re my customer now. Maybe next year. Maybe the year after that. So what’s good for the overall health system and the public’s health, and arguably the economy in the long term … it’s bad short term when, you know, an insurer, a company that decides not to cover GLP-1s. Although I sort of wonder if we’re going to get to the point where it’s just put in the water supply as more and more things are discovered about it. I’m being a little facetious, but only a little. … It’s a smart short-term sticker-price move. It’s not necessarily a wise move in the long run, and it’s going to get people mad because people who are, you know, who have struggled with weight, who’ve done the right things, and who still have trouble losing weight, or who have diabetes. I mean, I’m not sure if they’re dropping it for diabetes or they’re dropping it for obesity. I don’t know enough about it. 

Rovner: I think they’re mostly dropping it — yeah, I don’t think they can get away with dropping it for diabetes — I think they’re dropping it for weight loss. 

Kenen: Right. But I mean, as it becomes more restricted, but it’s turning out not to just be weight loss. I mean, it’s like people who get on it for weight loss are finding out that their livers get healthier. You know, there’s increasing research and causative signs about addiction. There’s, you know, it’s a really interesting drug, which we don’t totally understand. But it’s expensive, and that’s what, you know, people … the American healthcare system, or even the American business sector, isn’t always really thinking about the long term, particularly when the sticker shock is so big right now. 

Rovner: So another level of frustration — and something that we didn’t see the last time rising health costs were a top-tier political issue — is this whole trend of , or sometimes not-so-elective procedures, because so many patients now have multi-thousand-dollar deductibles, which we didn’t see the last time healthcare costs were spiking. That means many more patients could be blocked from getting needed care in the first place or, best-case scenario, fighting for months after that prepayment turned out to be too much. Ask me how I know about that latter part. I can’t help but think this is just going to increase the anger for voters. 

Raman: I mean, I really think so. We even, you know, last year I feel like there was so much outcry from folks when we were trying to see if Congress was going to extend the enhanced tax subsidies for the ACA. And, you know, all this talk about people maybe picking lower-tier plans because that is what they could afford. And I think we could see similar things now, where even if someone is still getting employer-sponsored insurance, maybe picking lower coverage than they want, not getting covered for as many things as they want. And, you know, feeding in with the prepayments, just so much more top of mind how much cost is going to be an issue in healthcare for folks. 

Rovner: Yeah, it’s one thing to have skin in the game. I say it’s another thing to have, you know, a limb in the game. Sorry, go ahead, Amanda. 

Seitz: Yeah, and I also think it will bring, that approach could backfire a little because it will bring a little bit more scrutiny to what providers are charging. A lot of times people get the bill after insurance has picked up a lot of the costs. Now you’re inviting them to look at it, you know, in advance and ask some questions that they might not have before afterwards. 

Rovner: Yeah. So what, if anything, are lawmakers proposing to do? Republicans seem to have retreated into the “let’s root out fraud” mode. President Trump is promising to send checks. Democrats seem to be proposing a lot of what I call “more of the same,” including rolling back the Republican cuts to the Affordable Care Act and Medicaid, and expanding Medicare benefits to things it doesn’t now cover, like dental and vision care. I feel like none of these things are really kind of meeting the moment of the intensity of the frustration. 

Seitz: I think it’s difficult to meet the moment in some ways because everyone knows that they won’t agree on anything. So, you know, it’s this sort of piecemealed approach of maybe what will stick, like trying to throw things at the wall and see what will stick. 

Kenen: There could be, like, a real bipartisan accord if, like, Trump agreed to put the $500 check into the mail-in ballot. [Hearty laughter] 

Rovner: Maybe you’re on to something, Joanne. 

Kenen: Probably not. Hypothetical. I think the one thing that, I mean, there’s a little bit of confounding is that people are upset about all prices, not just healthcare. There’s sort of an outrage, and not everybody is sick, and not everybody is, you know, facing a $10,000 prepayment. So it’s, I mean, I think people are aware and angry and angrier about healthcare, but it’s just sort of an affordability crisis, which healthcare is a component. And in some ways, it makes it easier for Congress to just sort of shout about it right now, before the elections. They’re really good at that, right? I mean, they’re all experts in shouting. 

Rovner: They’ve had lots of practice. 

Kenen: Yes, and, you know, I don’t really see … there’s going to be a fight on the left about single-payer, “Medicare for All,” but … I don’t think we yet know, outside of a couple of states, how … I haven’t really seen a unifying Democratic narrative on healthcare. You know, I see a fight about single-payer, but I don’t really see where they’re going. And … are they going to agree that the fight should be against the Republicans or against each other? That’s always a Democratic problem. Whereas the Republicans, I also don’t, you know, they tend to be, you know, more market-based, and they’re talking fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud. And, you know, there was just recently a big fraud bust on a Medicaid provider, not Medicaid beneficiaries. The way they talk about it, that can get confused. We all know there’s fraud. … Fraud is not the major driver of the healthcare costs in this country. But none of us would ever say there’s no fraud. There is. And we would all rather see less money spent on fraudsters and more money spent on making people healthy. But I think the Republicans right now are just going to keep shouting fraud. 

Rovner: Moving on, another trend we didn’t see as much in the early 2000s, when health prices were last spiking, was healthcare providers suing their patients over their unpaid bills. Our former podcast pal Sarah Kliff over at The New York Times has a really eye-popping story this week about how Kansas Republican Sen. Roger Marshall, who was an OB-GYN before being elected to Congress, and the headline tells you most of what you need to know: “ — a senator, I would add, who has voted to repeal both the Affordable Care Act and to cut Medicaid. I want to call this a scandal, but is it really? He’s not accused of doing anything illegal. His lawyers went after people who owed him money. Why has this story raised so very many eyebrows? 

Kenen: It’s an amazing story. You know, not only was he, and his response to these people … he wasn’t just, like, chasing them. They were arrested, and he was charging them 18% interest, and these people were, you know, most of them that we read about in that story were poor. So …  

Rovner: And some of them owed, like, $100! 

Kenen: Right. And it’s unclear whether they even knew they had court dates. And his response was just like, you know, a political one for the ages, which is … I think it was his spokesman, not him, saying, you know, he didn’t jail them, he didn’t issue the subpoenas and the warrants or whatever it was; the court did. But he brought the case, so it just doesn’t … is it going to, like, affect his eventual reelection? No, but is it just sort of, say, something’s really broken here? Yeah. 

Rovner: Yeah, and I mean, these weren’t people having tummy tucks. These were people who were delivering babies, in some cases, really difficult deliveries. 

Kenen: In one case, they had lost the babies. 

Rovner: That’s right. 

Kenen: Twins, I think it was twins. Yeah. 

Rovner: I think it was. Sandhya, sorry. 

Raman: There were two things that kind of, you know, caught my eye with this. A) is that, you know, doctors do have discretion in how they go after this issue. I mean, even if one is allowed to go after folks for this, they don’t have to. There are other options. But two, you know, I think one of the reasons this really resonates is that right now with Sen. Bill Cassidy, you know, losing his primary, not going to be in the Senate next year, Sen. Roger Marshall is probably one of the top contenders to lead the HELP [Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions] Committee, if Republicans maintain control of the Senate. So he’s going to have a lot of power over health policy and setting the agenda for what that committee does. And, you know, when so much of the conversation has been, like we talked about before, you know, affordability and things like that, I think that that has, you know, really struck a chord with some folks as well. 

Seitz: I also think that, you know, I did see some people saying, Listen, he is entitled. He did this work. He is entitled to get paid for it. And certainly, people might sympathize with that. But in this particular case, Sen. Marshall has leaned in to this idea that he was this upstanding community doctor who helped deliver babies of poor women on Medicaid. So when you’re a U.S. senator and you’re using that sort of imagery, but people have a completely opposite experience, it is fair game for them to speak out about that. 

Kenen: No, I mean it’s also, it’s true. Not all OBs take Medicaid. It’s a good thing that he took Medicaid. But in that bio, he left out that he was also, what, the co-owner of a hospital making millions of dollars. So, like, going after some — putting somebody in jail for two days over, you know, an obstetrics bill is probably something he’s going to have to discuss at home. 

Rovner: Well, while we are on the “Eyebrow-Raising Story” beat, The Wall Street Journal last week had a — he of the hoodies and shorts — apparently not being all that interested in “senatoring” these days. Among the anecdotes in the story, all of which were provided by former staffers, is one where he declined to meet with the folks from the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, which is not just one of the top children’s hospitals in the country, it’s one of the top hospitals in the country. They wanted to talk about Medicaid cuts. He reportedly said he wasn’t worried about Medicaid cuts, and they were just looking for an excuse to visit Washington. In more than 40 years of covering healthcare in Congress, I cannot remember an elected official dissing a major hospital in their own district. Have any of you ever seen …?  

Kenen: Particularly a children’s hospital! 

Rovner: And yes, particularly a children’s hospital. I mean, this is just so out of the ordinary. It’s hard for me to express. 

Kenen: Yeah, but that’s his middle name now: “out of the ordinary.” 

Seitz: It also just shows, like, you know, there’s so much when you talk to voters, they talk about how their elected officials don’t really care about them. And that was so on display in this article. 

Rovner: And, I mean, is there something different about hospitals these days? I guess that’s sort of what, the other thing that made it jump out to me. I mean, hospitals are sort of increasingly the bad guys in raising … costs. It used to be … the Republicans are all going after the big, greedy insurance companies. We’ve seen studies recently that said it’s not the insurance companies who are making more money these days; it’s the hospitals that are making more money these days, and premiums are going up because hospitals are charging so much. I’m just wondering if hospitals are kind of losing their luster a little bit on Capitol Hill. 

Seitz: I think so, and I think part of that is the consolidation, right? You have, no longer do you have, in all cases, community hospitals that really run … where you have, like, this great relationship with your local doctor and everyone knows who’s providing their healthcare. it’s become more corporate, and I think that makes it an easier target for sure. 

Rovner: Well, finally, on the “Scandalous Story” beat this week, while we were gone, The Guardian and The Associated Press that contradict testimony that HHS [Health and Human Services] Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. gave to Congress when he denied that his 2019 trip to Samoa was related to vaccines. A letter he wrote to the Samoan prime minister before he went specifically said he wanted to study what happened with the MMR vaccine in the island nation, where two children died after receiving an improperly mixed version of the vaccine, and later a measles outbreak, after vaccinations declined, sickened thousands and killed 83 more people. In response to this story, Sen. Ron Wyden, who’s the ranking member of the Senate Finance Committee, has called for a criminal investigation into whether Kennedy lied to Congress. Of course, it seems unlikely that the current Justice Department would take up such a case. But if Democrats do take back the Senate, could they use this to try to oust the secretary? 

Raman: I think they could use it to bring him in. I mean, he wasn’t under oath when making these remarks about this during the hearing. But I think, I mean, that’s the main pull for Democrats in this presidency is if they do gain control of one or more chambers to be able to do more oversight on the things that they’re not getting answers to through other means. So I mean, we could see that … 

Rovner: I believe it is still a crime to lie to Congress, even if you’re not under oath. Just throwing that out there. 

Raman: I mean, I don’t know what they can do with this other than hold oversight, because I don’t see the DOJ or other enforcement kind of going after this. 

Rovner: Yeah. I guess I’m just wondering, I mean, of all the things that we know that Secretary Kennedy has not been completely truthful about, is this the one that they’re going to sort of want to run into the ground? 

Seitz: I totally agree. It might not. You know, there’s a lot of maybe half-truths that have been given at this point, and it’ll be interesting to see which ones the Democrats do go after, even if they do get power, which is very up in the air right now. 

Rovner: Right. 

Kenen: And there are rumors that Kennedy is — I mean, these rumors always happen at this time of year before an election — there’s, you know, rumors that he’ll be out anyway, but, you know, who knows? Because right now, you know, Trump seems to be embracing him again. There was some distance. Now there’s, you know, these things go up and down, and it’s not unique to Republicans. There are always rumors about Cabinet secretaries changing after the midterm, but this is sort of one of the ones that is circulating in D.C. that there could be a change. 

Rovner: No, we will see. All right. Speaking of HHS, Politico did a deep dive into what’s happened with personnel and has found that the number of political appointees in the agency has reached the highest level since the Clinton administration — even while career staffing has dropped by more than 20% — and that HHS actually now has the most non-Senate-confirmed political appointees in the federal government. That includes several departments that are far larger, like Defense. In some parts of HHS, even though hiring has resumed, those quitting still outnumber those coming in. And at the same time, agencies are failing to carry out policies and spend money appropriated by Congress. At some point, is Congress going to notice this and try to do something about it? I feel like I ask this question every single week. 

Seitz: I mean, this was such smart reporting because I think all of us have, at some point, been, like, you know, where’s this anti-vaccine ally of Kennedy’s? Why is he in this agency? So we’ve all noticed, like, this just influx of advisers — usually is how they label them. But in many ways, this wasn’t surprising. I mean, the CDC [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention], FDA, NIH [National Institutes of Health], the career staffers have really been cut out of the decision-making on so many things, whether it be autism research, tobacco, vaccines, the MAHA Report that relied more on AI than any actual in-house expertise. So, you know, RFK has been very vocal on how much he does not trust the people working in these agencies. So, like I said, in many ways it’s not surprising, but it is certainly … shocking to see those sort of numbers. 

Rovner: Yeah, I found the numbers really — I mean, anecdotally, and we’ve been talking about this for months. I mean, you know, this agency or that agency where everybody has left, or — I forgot, there’s still, you know, thousands of people who are being paid and are on administrative leave and not working. I mean, particularly at the CDC, there’s entire offices of people, of career people, that are simply out in limbo while these, you know, political appointees are doing all the policymaking.  

Well, one thing that Congress has appeared to notice is an interagency agreement in which HHS would let the Department of Defense tap into billions of dollars appropriated to the NIH for the DOD to use to study military biodefense programs. The agreement was . It’s quite an eye-popping story. I will link to it. Democratic Rep. Rosa DeLauro of Connecticut and Sen. Patty Murray of Washington, the ranking Democrats on the House and Senate Appropriations committees, are both furious. But it remains unclear what they can or will do. Is there anything they can do about this? I mean, it appears to be something that, you know, HHS has done with DOD, and it seems to be kind of a fait accompli. 

Raman: I mean, this whole situation has been kind of unusual. You know, we had the Democrats last week, you know, speaking out about how they’re very worried about this. We had the White House and the Republican leader of the House Appropriations Committee, you know, pushing back and saying that no money is changing hands and that it’s a partnership. And I think there’s still a lot of missing pieces that we’re still trying to figure out. I think a lot of groups have been trying to say, you know, are certain programs going to be cut to fund this, or there other things that are, you know, going to get de-emphasized, or is this just like a regular partnership? Because they do, you know, these two do work a lot on various biodefense issues over the years. That’s not unusual. I think one clue we might be able to look at is next week the Appropriations Committee is looking at the law that governs these interagency agreements, and so while it doesn’t explicitly say this agreement, I think that could come up a lot, and maybe, you know, pull out some leads in terms of what maybe is happening more here, and, you know, is money changing hands? Is it not? But that’s what I would kind of look to next. 

Rovner: Yeah, I do feel like Congress has sort of thrown up its hands about, Hey, we have the power of the purse, not you, administration. All right, we’re going to take a quick break. We’ll be right back. 

So, abortion is kind of receding as a leading issue for voters this fall, obviously in favor of affordability. But there’s some still pretty epic fights raging, particularly over the abortion pill mifepristone and whether it should remain available via telehealth. That’s a change made by the Food and Drug Administration during the Biden administration during the pandemic that was later made permanent. On Wednesday, a federal appeals court in New Orleans heard oral arguments in a case brought by Louisiana, charging that the FDA policy undermines its state’s ban and should be rolled back. Meanwhile, states where abortion remains legal argue that banning telehealth prescribing would violate their ability to make abortion available, which is what the Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision said they should be able to do. Sandhya, you listened to the arguments; they were pretty arcane. What is this case going to turn on? 

Raman: So it was interesting, but I will agree with you that there was a lot of arcane legalese here. So, Louisiana, during their arguments, was asking the court to, you know, pause what the FDA has done, but also to pause that their own decision because the Supreme Court right now has put a pause on letting any of the regulation change while the litigation plays out. So a pause of a pause. And so there was a little bit of talk of, you know, what can we do here as a court and, you know, the authorities there. I thought what was, you know, pretty interesting was that, you know, the FDA didn’t really say a lot in responses to the judges. They basically just said that Louisiana didn’t have standing. They didn’t answer a lot of the questions asked of them. You could tell the judges were kind of frustrated about that. And, you know, I think a little bit is understandable. You know, we’re in this position where the FDA is defending an abortion policy put in place by the former Democratic administration. They’re in an unusual spot. We still have the, you know, review of mifepristone happening at FDA that could, you know, decide something on the safety. We don’t know yet, depending on what it is that they’re going to look for. But I think it’ll be interesting to see what they say, just because it seemed like the judges were frustrated with many responses from different people. But whatever outcome we get here will definitely be appealed by whoever to the Supreme Court. I mean, we’ve seen that with other cases; it’s almost, you know, guaranteed here. 

Rovner: And of course, we’re still waiting for that FDA study that they’ve been promising that we expect, I guess, after the midterms, conveniently, because the administration didn’t want to further inflame both sides before the midterms. 

Well, along these same lines, while we were on break, Senate HELP Committee Chairman Bill Cassidy, who’s a strong abortion opponent from Louisiana, released the result of an investigation by Republicans on his committee that criticized the FDA’s handling of mifepristone regulation. Will this investigation and report have any ongoing impact — given that this is also being played out in the courts, maybe in confirmation hearings for Heidi Overton, the current White House health aide who’s been nominated to head the FDA? 

Raman: I think it’ll definitely come up in her confirmation hearings. I’m not sure how much this specific report is going to play a huge difference, because, I mean, we’ve had over the last several months a lot of different Republicans going and asking FDA for specific things to speed up this review, to do it in the first place, to do specific things, and it doesn’t seem like that has moved the needle and changed much. You know, they’ve kind of stuck to whatever it is that they had in mind on that. So, I mean, it could be something that they cite, but I don’t know that it’s going to have a drastic effect when they already have that underway. 

Rovner: I’m interested. We’re seeing a whole bunch of hearings for Senate confirmations for HHS officials, but not yet for Heidi Overton, who’s been working in the White House as a health official. Amanda, do you expect that we’re going to see anything about her before the election, or maybe they’re going to try to hold it over? 

Seitz: Yeah, I heard some chatter that there might be a possibility, but then of course we got the notice for the deputy secretary and for the surgeon general, and not her yet. So we will see. I, you know, I think obviously the hearings next week will be far less controversial people, and I think that’s, you know, key right now. 

Rovner: Yeah, I should say that Chris Klomp, who’s … at CMS now, but who’s basically been acting as deputy secretary and has been nominated to be deputy secretary. I don’t think anybody expects there to be a whole lot of controversy associated with that one. 

Seitz: Though I will say it’ll be interesting to see. I mean, certainly he’s going to get questions about vaccines, and I’m very curious to see how he responds to that, as well as the surgeon general. You know, those are not normally questions that these folks are fielding, but they’re going to have to answer them, and it’s going to be really, like, telling how they walk that line. 

Kenen: Klomp is one of the probably least controversial people at HHS. People think, people in both parties and in the private sector and the health sector think he’s very competent, and that, you know, apparently he’s a — I don’t know him personally — but he’s apparently, you know, someone one can talk to. So I don’t think this is a fireworks-y thing, other than the mandatory, you know, both parties always want to score some points, and they will be point-scoring. But you know, he’s — I think there are a lot of Democrats who are actually pretty glad he’s there. 

Rovner: Yeah, I’ve met him. He’s very smooth, and I mean that in a good way. I don’t mean that in a slick way. I mean he’s just, he’s one of these people who clearly is good at his job. 

Well, meanwhile, still on reproductive health, our friends at ProPublica are reporting, using federal health statistics, that the , those that implant outside the uterus, has doubled since 2020 compared with the six years before. Some of that was likely due to the pandemic, when healthcare was harder to access. But the rate has continued to grow, and it’s grown much faster in states that have implemented abortion bans. Other ProPublica reporting has shown how women with pregnancy complications, like ectopic pregnancies, have had trouble getting care in states with bans. I guess at some level this shouldn’t be that surprising, but it still kind of jumped out at me. 

Seitz: It’s such important work because it’s been so hard to measure the impact of these bans. You know, we heard anecdotally over and over again from doctors how difficult it was to treat patients in these states. We obviously heard the horrific stories of women being turned away or dying in some cases. But a lot of people have sort of dismissed that and said, “Oh, you know, this was a bad doctor, or someone who wasn’t following the law or wasn’t reading it close enough, or a bad hospital attorney.” This gives us such a clear picture of how drastically the overturning of Roe v. Wade has been in raw numbers that you really can’t refute, and I thought that was very important. 

Kenen: This is the one, not the one thing, but this is one thing that there’s no debate about: An embryo cannot develop outside the womb. It cannot. It cannot. It can’t. I mean, it’s … it got lost, basically. I mean, I think I’ve mentioned before. … I have had an ectopic pregnancy. I’ve had a heterotopic pregnancy. And it’s nothing … you know, in my case, it was very much a planned, wanted baby, and it was very upsetting for me. But I was, I got treatment. But, you know, for people to mess around with this who don’t understand it, I mean, there was one lawmaker, and I forgot who it was, and I also forgot whether it was state or federal, who said, “Why can’t they just move it where it belongs?” You know, you can’t. I mean, trust me, I would have chosen that. … This is, like, it’s not abortion. This is just a medical problem that no baby is going to come out of an ectopic pregnancy, and a woman can die. So the fact that this is, like, still being — that women are dying is, like, if you’re pro-life, you’re supposed to care about life. And, you know, partly because of some misunderstandings, and partly because there’s some politics, and partly just because of some — you don’t know you have one. I mean, I didn’t know I had an ectopic pregnancy. And it just shouldn’t — women should not die in 2026 in the United States of America or anywhere else. This is not an abortion. 

Rovner: Even the anti-abortion movement makes the semantic case that treating ectopic pregnancies is — they don’t consider treating ectopic pregnancies an abortion. 

All right. Well, finally, this week, an update on the political fight over the measles outbreak in Pennsylvania, which has pitted HHS Secretary RFK Jr. against the state’s Democratic governor and possible presidential candidate, Josh Shapiro. The Lancaster County coroner has now reported to the CDC that the two measles-related deaths in the state in August were both infants, both from Amish families, but only one died “from” measles. (She puts in air quotes.) The other died “with” measles. I feel like we’re already back to covid. Does this actually make a difference? 

Kenen: It depends. Like, I thought, one of the best summaries of this case, and it was actually some of the facts that have come out in the public … Paul Offit had a very — from Children’s Hospital, speaking of Children’s Hospital … 

Rovner: Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, yes. 

Kenen: … and one of the leading vaccine researchers in the country, and someone who’s very good at explaining things. He had, like, a 10-paragraph … I think it was in MedPage, the other day … it was a little bit. … We’ve learned more about these cases since then, so I don’t know that he’s updated that. But the, you know, the basic idea was that in this “with measles,” in this particular case, might actually have been, like, without the measles, the baby might not have died, or the child might not have died. 

Rovner: This was a baby who died from a ruptured spleen. 

Kenen: And that the spleen could have been damaged because of the measles. And he didn’t say it’s definite. He said a number of tests needed to be performed to be sure one way or the other, and to the best of what had come out publicly before that, those tests had not … we didn’t know if those tests had been performed. So yes, it is possible that this was, the baby died because of the spleen damage, but that the spleen could have been because of the measles, and apparently we’re not really sure of it. But yeah, it matters because it’s part of the mix. You know, a baby died, a child died, a baby died, and getting in a fight about “with” doesn’t … it’s a risk factor. Period. 

Rovner: Well, one small silver lining: The Pennsylvania Department of Health says it has seen a surge in measles vaccines being given, nearly twice as many this August as is typical. Is that how this is going to go? People won’t get vaccinated until they see cases of the things they could have already been vaccinated to prevent? 

Seitz: It depends on who they trust, right? I mean, I think that is the unfortunate thing about this entire — I mean, there are so many unfortunate things about this entire case, and the first being that two babies are dead. But the other unfortunate thing is that people are now thoroughly confused, and it’s hard to discern, really, what happened. Even as a reporter who’s following this. Imagine being just, you know, a parent trying to decide what to do with your kid. So I think you’ll see some people that do go: OK, I don’t want to take this risk. I think you’ll see some that double down and go: You know, I’m not sure that the government’s being honest with me. And the nation’s health secretary also suggested that the Pennsylvania state government’s not being honest with me. So, unfortunately, I think we’re going to see all kinds of reactions to all of this. 

Rovner: And which government is not being honest with me — the federal government, or the state government, or the local government? Because now we’ve got the local coroner involved in this. So it’s, yeah, it is truly — I feel like this is a real microcosm of what’s going on with vaccines around the country. 

Kenen: In some ways it’s, what some people in public health would say, the best possible scenario is that people do wake up to the fact. Now we haven’t had a lot of measles for many years. We have now had more measles, and people are learning about the danger of measles, and maybe that will change behavior and reverse some of the anti-vaccination movement. On the other hand, you also have people saying that, not just in this case, but that it wasn’t measles that killed so-and-so. You know that there have been cases where someone died, but no, it wasn’t measles. You know, it was bad care. It was lack of vitamin A. It was, you know, malpractice. It was bad luck. It was something else, right? So you have sort of … you hear in public health is, like, Oh the tragedy is it’s going to take measles deaths for people to rediscover the importance of vaccine, and we may be seeing a little of that. But the other, the simultaneous narrative is, you know, it’s not measles that’s killing you; you don’t need the vaccine, that’s worse. So there’s … two narratives. Right now we see the, you know, the pro-vaccine may be inching up, but I don’t think we know yet where we’re going to be in a few more months. The, you know, there’s a lot of measles out there. 

Rovner: Yeah, clearly more of this to come. All right, that’s this week’s news, or at least as much as we have time for. Now we will play my “Bill of the Month” interview with Lauren Sausser. Then we will come back with our extra credits. 

I am pleased to welcome back to the podcast my colleague Lauren Sausser, who reported and wrote the latest 51ÊÓƵ Health News “Bill of the Month.” Hi, Lauren. 

Lauren Sausser: Hi. 

Rovner: So this month’s patient was doing what just about every medical expert recommends: getting preventive screenings for breast cancer. Tell us who she is, what kind of medical care she got, and why she needed something extra. 

Sausser: OK. So, the patient this month, her name is Stephanie Halver. She lives in Washington state, and her primary care physician recommended that she get a breast MRI in addition to her annual mammogram because of her age, partly. Stephanie is over 40. She has dense breast tissue, and she also has a family history of breast cancer. Her mother and her aunt were both diagnosed in the past. 

Rovner: So she was at high risk, and her doctor recommended this MRI in addition to the regular mammogram, and her insurance company preapproved it. So, how was there a fight over the bill, and how big was the bill? 

Sausser: So, this actually took me a minute to figure this out. So, Stephanie had gotten a preapproval letter from her insurer before she went to schedule the MRI. But then, several months later, she got a bill, a significant bill for over $1,000, and she didn’t understand why this was not covered in the same way that her annual mammogram was covered. And to figure that out, we have to go back to the Affordable Care Act, which says that insurers have to cover some screenings, some cancer screenings, at zero cost to patients. Mammograms are in that list. Colonoscopies are in that list. Breast MRIs are not in that list. So the question is, who comes up with this list? It’s a group that you probably have heard of before, called the U.S. Preventive [Services] Task Force, which looks at all the available scientific evidence and uses a really rigorous process to figure out which screenings are best suited for the entire population. So, anyway, at this point in time, the U.S. Preventive [Services] Task Force — which, I should say, is not an active group of scientists since Kennedy disbanded the group essentially last year. 

Rovner: Yes, and we talk about this on the podcast all the time. 

Sausser: OK, so you all are up to speed about that. But as the current guidelines are written, breast MRIs — the group does not, has not found enough evidence that they’re necessary for a large group of people. Now, interestingly, I recently spoke to the former head of the task force, and he concedes that that does not mean that breast MRIs are not the right choice for some people. There’s this tension between, you know, what’s good for a population and what’s good for individual patients. In this case, Stephanie Halver’s primary care doctor appropriately recommended a breast MRI, but because breast MRIs are not included in the task force recommendations, her insurer does not have to cover that at zero cost. Now, as you mentioned, she had that preapproval letter, so why did she get the bill? Well, in this case, Stephanie had a really high deductible. It was over $5,000. That’s not super high anymore, but it was high. So in this case, the cost of the MRI was just applied toward her deductible. So she got a bill for it. If it had happened later in the calendar year and she’d met her deductible at that point, she might not have gotten a bill, or maybe wouldn’t have gotten a bill that was for essentially the full amount of the MRI. 

Rovner: So it was covered. It just wasn’t covered as a no-out-of-pocket-cost preventive service? 

Sausser: Exactly, exactly. 

Rovner: Now … we’ll add one more level of complication to this. I know in your research you discovered that some states are actually requiring breast MRIs to be covered in certain situations, and Washington is one of those states. So why wasn’t it covered for her? 

Sausser: So yeah, this added another level of complexity because when Stephanie was researching, you know, why, how did this bill happen? I live in Washington state. There’s a state law in Washington state that requires insurers to cover this procedure — or this test, I should say. Those state laws don’t regulate the type of insurance that she has. So a lot of people, like Stephanie, like you and me, get their health insurance through their employer. Those employer-sponsored plans are regulated federally through the Department of Labor, and so state laws generally don’t touch that type of insurance. Now, if Stephanie had had a federal marketplace plan or some other type of insurance, it’s possible that that state law would have applied. But in her case, because she had insurance through her job, that state law didn’t benefit her. 

Rovner: This is why we needed the Affordable Care Act in the first place because state laws don’t cover many — all of those employer plans that are federally regulated, which is most employer plans, although it’s not all. 

Sausser: Right, and it’s really, it’s confusing for people. … Insurance regulation is so piecemeal, and these self- —they’re also called these self-insured plans. If you work for a very large employer, chances are the plan is self-insured, and that means, at a very basic level, that the employer, not the insurance company, is actually the one that decides which benefits will be paid for and how they will be paid for, and, in this case, Stephanie did check with her HR [human resources] department, which confirmed that breast MRIs are not covered in the same way that mammograms are covered. 

Rovner: So, what’s the takeaway here? If you’re a patient and you find yourself in a similar situation, and your doctor recommends this care, I mean, is there a way to, like, save some money? 

Sausser: There is. One thing that you can do is shop around for the best price. So you’re going to pay more for a breast MRI probably through a hospital than you are through sort of a freestanding imaging center. The other thing that you might consider doing is, if you have a very high deductible — let’s say, you know, $10,000 or $20,000 — you might consider paying cash because you’re probably going to be quoted a lower cash price than if the provider bills the MRI through your insurance. The other thing is that you could consider scheduling this after you’ve met your deductible. So let’s say that Stephanie had decided to wait till the end of her plan’s calendar year, and she had met her deductible at that point. She probably wouldn’t have had to pay very much for this MRI. There are also advocacy groups that can help patients who are struggling to pay the bill, find a lower-cost alternative. There are programs through Medicaid that help patients get screened. The takeaway, to answer your question, is don’t ignore your doctor’s recommendation. If you need a breast MRI, there are probably ways to lower your cost if you know going into it that you may be on the hook for all or part of the bill. 

Rovner: Well, as always, it’s buyer beware in the healthcare marketplace. Lauren Sausser, thank you very much. 

Sausser: Of course. Thanks for having me. 

Rovner: OK, we’re back. It’s time for our extra-credit segment. That’s where we each recognize a story we read this week we think you should read, too. Don’t worry if you miss it. We’ll post the links in our show notes on your phone or other mobile device. Sandhya, why don’t you go first this week? 

Raman: So my extra credit this week is called “.” It’s from my colleagues at Bloomberg Government, Erin Durkin and Claire Hebert. So something some folks might not know is that Medicaid is a significant funding source for special-needs services in K through 12 public schools. And so they took a look at Indiana, which has, you know, been aggressively cutting Medicaid enrollment, seeing some of the biggest drops in child health insurance compared to other states, and just looking at some of the effects there, you know, in part by the tax law that Republicans passed last year, and just Indiana laws that also made similar changes. So it’s a good deep dive into this. 

Rovner: It is. Joanne. 

Kenen: This is a story from ProPublica in collaboration with the Oregon paper, The Oregonian, I believe it was: “.” It’s by Audrey Dutton. It’s about Idaho, which is, there’s a community that’s been there for, like, 100 years that did not believe in medical intervention. They believe that if a baby is dying, then that’s, you know, what God wanted. It is not … there’s an astonishing, a disturbing number of cases. They are under Iowa state, excuse me, Idaho state law. They are not prosecuted. They are under state law. They are allowed to let their children die. And there are some voices in that story about the police who have to go and how disturbing it is for them, and that ProPublic also had a retired pediatrician review the medical records. Many, many of these are avoidable deaths — something that would have responded to antibiotics. Something that would have, you know, simple, not terribly invasive surgery. There was a quote from a midwife that really stuck with me, talking about watching a child die, and she said, “It’s not pretty. They don’t just close their eyes.” It’s a very, very powerful story. 

Rovner: Amanda. 

Seitz: Yeah, I have two extra credits this week, but they both touch on the same topic. The first is “,” by Daniel Payne at Stat News. This story looks at how, ahead of all these Medicaid cuts, rural hospitals are sort of clinging on for dear life by getting the backing of a larger hospital system. They’re often out of town, and, actually, one of the hospitals my own mom works at, so that was kind of cool. But the article does a great job of raising the balance here — that while this approach is saving hospitals from closing, it changes the care that people are getting, and it could make it more expensive. And then my second article is by our 51ÊÓƵ Health News colleagues Noam [N.] Levy and Hannah Norman. They published an article: A NY Hospital Tried To Close Its Birthing Center. This City United To Fight Back.” That looks at how this hospital in a small town of Troy, New York, was instructed to close its birthing center by the multibillion-dollar health system that’s out of town that it’s owned by. And there was this sort of herculean, bipartisan pushback over the proposed closure that stretched from, like, the local city to the state. Both of these articles just do a really great job, I thought, of showing the local impact of hospital consolidation and corporatization of those systems. 

Rovner: Well, my extra credit this week is from NBC News. It’s part of its “Disabled and Denied” series called “,” by Mike Hixenbaugh. And it’s about a new AI program being used in Nebraska. I guess we’re all looking at different states this week. And this program is being used in other states, too, to help determine how much Medicaid funding should be allocated to those living with disabilities — which sounds fine until he discovered that the algorithm basically penalizes families who’ve managed to care for their disabled loved ones at home. Because they’ve never been institutionalized, they’re suddenly deemed more able than they actually are, and funding that’s been allowing them to live is being cut dramatically. In one case, parents in their 70s caring for a pair of severely disabled sons in their 40s are facing a loss of more than $200,000 in Medicaid funding. That’s jeopardizing their ability to continue to keep their sons at home. The entire story is pretty wrenching. I really can’t recommend it strongly enough. 

OK, that is this week’s show. Thanks to our editor, Emmarie Huetteman, and our producer-engineer this week, Taylor Cook. A reminder: What the Health? is now available on WAMU platforms, the NPR app, and wherever you get your podcasts — as well as, of course, kffhealthnews.org. Also, as always, you can email us your comments or questions. We’re at whatthehealth@kff.org. Or you can still find me on X these days , or on Bluesky . Where are you guys hanging on the socials, as they say? Amanda. 

Seitz: I am also on X . 

Rovner: Joanne? 

Kenen: I’m mostly on and . 

Rovner: Sandhya. 

Raman: I’m on and on @SandhyaWrites. 

Rovner: We’ll be back in your feed next week. Until then, be healthy. 

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A NY Hospital Tried To Close Its Birthing Center. This City United To Fight Back. /courts/troy-new-york-hospital-birthing-center-bipartisan-fight/ Wed, 09 Sep 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2281344 TROY, N.Y. — Like many residents of this aging industrial city on the Hudson River, Starletta Washington was stunned when she heard Troy’s last remaining hospital planned to close its birthing center.

“It was devastating,” said Washington, who heads the local YWCA. Washington was born at the hospital and had her children there. She couldn’t believe families would now have to get to a hospital half an hour away or face the prospect of an emergency delivery.

“Nobody else was going to be born in the city of Troy unless they were born on a city bus, in the back of a cab, or, disgustingly, on the side of the street?” Washington said. “Blew my mind.”

Troy wasn’t the first community to face this prospect. Since 2010, hospitals have as cities and towns shrink and hospitals consolidate into larger systems.

Troy found a more hopeful ending.

A group of women and one man stand holding signs that say "Save Burdett Birth Center" with a yellow "SAVED" sticker added to the front.
State Assembly member John T. McDonald III (center), a Democrat, worked to secure $5 million in state funding to help keep the Burdett Birth Center open in Troy, New York. (Katherine Bruno/Upper Hudson Planned Parenthood)
A woman in business formal attire sits at a desk with two American flags behind her.
Carmella Mantello, the Republican mayor of Troy, New York, says even nonprofit hospitals seem to have become more corporate. “The whole hospital scene has changed,” she says. (Hannah Norman/51ÊÓƵ Health News)
A woman wearing a black T-shirt looks towards the camera. She wears a necklace with a tiny star on it, with earrings to match.
Starletta Washington, who heads the YWCA in Troy, was born at the hospital where Burdett Birth Center is located. Like many in the community, she says she was blindsided by Trinity Health’s plan to close the center. (Hannah Norman/51ÊÓƵ Health News)

Elected officials from both major parties joined patient advocates, mothers, midwives, doulas, and community leaders like Washington to challenge Trinity Health, the large Catholic health system that owns Troy’s hospital and birthing center. The campaign even united Planned Parenthood and the .

“Whether you were Republican or Democrat, or if you didn’t vote, it literally brought everyone together,” said Carmella Mantello, the city’s Republican mayor. “Everyone just said, ‘We can’t let this happen.’”

Throughout the country, healthcare remains a flash point as politicians square off ahead of November’s elections. But in many places, Americans are also quietly finding common ground.

In this small city, residents were brought together by frustration over large, corporate health systems that can seem to put profits over patients. And they resolved to work together to keep critical medical services in their community.

A Community Institution

Babies have been delivered at Samaritan Hospital on a hill above Troy since this city’s once bustling factories produced most of America’s shirt collars a century ago.

More recently, Samaritan’s Burdett Birth Center had become a model for patient-focused care. Midwives and doulas work alongside OB-GYNs and support mothers who want to avoid a delivery by cesarean section unless necessary.

Patient safety advocates have pushed for years to reduce surgical deliveries, which can lead to complications. At Burdett, only about a quarter of newborns are delivered by C-section, compared with about a third statewide, according to 2025 hospital data. Burdett also had fewer preterm births and fewer babies with low birth weights.

“I wouldn’t go anywhere else,” said Lidia Zambrano-Madera, who gave birth to both her children at Burdett with the help of a midwife.

A woman who just gave birth holds her infant while lying in a hospital bed. Three adult family members and one child stand around her.
Lidia Zambrano-Madera, a Troy resident, gave birth to both her children at the Burdett Birth Center with the help of a midwife. “I wouldn’t go anywhere else,” she says. (Jayana Espinoza)

For Zambrano-Madera, who recently opened a children’s play center in Troy, Burdett offered another advantage: It was just five minutes from home.

But three years ago, Trinity Health, a multibillion-dollar Michigan-based hospital system, said the birth center was losing money and would close. Families from Troy and surrounding Rensselaer County would have to deliver at another Trinity hospital in Albany, up to a half-hour’s drive away. The hospitals are branded under St. Peter’s Health Partners in the Albany region.

“We’ve been frantic about trying not to cut the care at the bedside,” said Steven Hanks, a physician who oversees Trinity hospitals in New York and New England. “But, you know, you get to a point where you can only consolidate so much. You can only spread people so thin, and then you have to start taking harder looks at your actual services.”

Corporate Backlash

Trinity’s plans — news of which — came without warning, surprising the obstetrical staff and community leaders. They set off a firestorm.

Within days, midwives, mothers, community leaders, and politicians held a rally at the YWCA in downtown Troy. Others would follow. Volunteers led by doulas and midwives made T-shirts and handed out pink “Save Burdett” signs at the local farmers market.

Activists were outraged that the hospital hadn’t adequately assessed the impact of the closure, particularly on low-income families. They conducted a community survey that found 1 in 4 Troy residents didn’t have access to a car and would have trouble getting to Albany.

The campaign drew on deep connections that many residents had to Burdett. “They realized what a gem Burdett is, and what a great community service they provide,” said Jessica Hayek, a doula and birth educator who helped lead the campaign.

A woman stands beside a bed with a quilt looks away from the camera with a subtle smile.
Jessica Hayek, a doula and birth educator, helped lead the campaign to stop Trinity Health from closing the Burdett Birth Center. She says Michigan-based Trinity didn’t appreciate how important the center was to the Troy community. (Hannah Norman/51ÊÓƵ Health News)

Hayek and others also tapped into deep-seated frustration with Trinity, a healthcare behemoth that and last year recorded more than $25 billion in revenue and a healthy operating margin that topped 5%.

“Trinity Health is in the Midwest, and they are not in the community,” Hayek said. “So when you’re looking at just the numbers from an office in the Midwest somewhere, they’re not looking at the benefit that this place has on the community.”

Hayek describes herself as a liberal Democrat. But Trinity’s focus on its bottom line also irked many Republicans, including Mantello, who was the City Council president at the time.

“The whole hospital scene has changed,” Mantello said. “It was very personable. You had nurses and doctors who were able to give more care and spend more time with patients.” Now, by contrast, many hospitals have what she described as a “more corporate type of atmosphere.”

Even the Catholic bishop decried the planned closure of the birthing center as out of step with the values of his faith and the hospital system’s.

“Nothing is more central to the Catholic healthcare mission than supporting life and all those who bring it into the world,” Bishop Edward Scharfenberger said after Trinity announced the closure plan. Scharfenberger has since retired.

A Bipartisan Solution

Despite the backlash, Trinity Health executives for months insisted they had no choice. The system even sued the state to push through the closure.

Ultimately, though, powerful state officials, including New York Attorney General Letitia James, a Democrat, joined the fight to save the birthing center, launching an investigation into the proposed closure and hosting a daylong hearing in Troy.

State Assembly member John T. McDonald III, a Democrat who represents Troy, worked with Republican elected officials, including the county executive and the state senator representing Troy, to secure $5 million in state funding to help keep Burdett open.

 “You had a Democrat and a bunch of Republicans all working together on the same issue,” McDonald said, “because, at the end of the day, our job is to listen to what the public has to say.”

A crowd of people of various genders, ethnicities, and ages stand with signs that say "Save Burdett Birth Center."
Community leaders, politicians, midwives, doulas, and families from Troy rallied for months to stop the Burdett Birth Center from closing, including at the state Capitol in Albany. (Katherine Bruno/Upper Hudson Planned Parenthood)
A plastic lawn sign with white text and a bright pink background reads, "Midwives Save Lives / Save Burdett Birth Center / SAVED!"
Community volunteers in Troy celebrated the success of their campaign to save the Burdett Birth Center by adding a yellow tag to the pink protest signs. (Hannah Norman/51ÊÓƵ Health News)

Nearly a year after announcing the closure, Trinity reversed itself and said Burdett would remain open.

Lois Uttley, a New York City-based researcher and activist who has worked with communities facing hospital consolidation, said Troy’s success reflects a growing bipartisan suspicion of corporate healthcare organizations.

“The executives of these health systems will tell the community that joining a big health system will be good, that the quality of care will improve, that efficiencies will mean they can keep the costs low,” Uttley said. “But what I have seen over the last 30 years of work is that those promises often are broken.”

As hospitals close or downsize, she said, communities are catching on. “They’re becoming more skeptical.”

There’s another, more hopeful lesson in Troy’s success, said McDonald, the state lawmaker.

“If we take down our swords,” he said, “and put out our arms, maybe we can get something done.”

51ÊÓƵ Health News is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at 51ÊÓƵ—an independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 51ÊÓƵ Health News and is republished here under a .

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California Weighs Penalties for Healthcare Providers That Don’t Rein In Costs /health-industry/high-healthcare-costs-hospitals-state-spending-limits-california-fines/ Mon, 24 Aug 2026 13:58:42 +0000 /?p=2276649 California is weighing stiff penalties for hospitals and other healthcare entities that don’t stay under state spending limits, potentially levying hundreds of millions of dollars in fines if these providers don’t take steps to rein in rising healthcare costs.

If the state Office of Health Care Affordability adopts the fines next week, hospitals, medical groups, insurers, and others could face penalties that amount to as much as 125% of the total they spend above the state’s annual growth targets.

The penalty proposal comes after healthcare entities in California were asked to limit growth by 3.5% last year and ramp down to 3% by 2029. Seven hospitals that state officials consider particularly expensive face even smaller growth targets: 1.8% in 2026, dropping to 1.6% by 2029.

Consumer advocates argue that state financial deterrents are critical to bring relief to millions of Californians struggling with high insurance premiums and out-of-pocket expenses. Hospitals accounted for in U.S. health spending from 2022 to 2024, compared with 11% from retail prescription drugs. But adding teeth to those targets sets up a fight with the powerful hospital industry, which has a challenging the spending limits as unreasonable. Hospitals warned that they will cut back on vital services, including in emergency rooms, obstetrics, and behavioral health.

Healthcare industry representatives said the state affordability office hasn’t accounted for year-to-year volatility or other factors beyond the industry’s control, such as rising minimum wages, state earthquake retrofit requirements, and expensive new drugs.

“They’re building the plane while flying it,” said Ben Johnson, group vice president for financial policy at the California Hospital Association. “We know improvements in affordability are needed, but we have serious questions about how and about what the unintended consequences could be under OHCA’s rather stringent approaches.”

When calculating penalties, California regulators would consider various factors, including a healthcare entity’s financial situation, its market impact, and the gravity and number of offenses, according to a in June. And entities would first be given opportunities to implement performance improvement plans to bring their spending into line before penalties are imposed. For those that don’t comply, the board is considering penalties of $10,000 a day or a flat $500,000.

The penalties, which the affordability office’s eight-member board is required by to adopt, are slated for discussion, and a potential vote, at the board’s . The soonest healthcare providers would be subject to penalties is 2028, because it’s expected it will take two years to collect and publicly report spending data to measure against the 2026 targets. The state is still collecting data on how entities performed against the 2025 targets, which aren’t enforceable, according to Andrew DiLuccia, a spokesperson for the California Department of Health Care Access and Information.

States Set Targets

California is one of at least eight states that have set spending targets as part of an expanding effort to curb soaring healthcare spending across the nation. Connecticut, Massachusetts, Oregon, and Rhode Island have also authorized the use of some type of financial penalty. The specifics of each vary widely, although so far no state has applied them.

A by the California Health Care Foundation found that 4 out of 10 state residents said they had medical debt, and 6 in 10 reported that they or a family member had skipped or delayed medical care in the previous 12 months because of cost. Nationwide, about say it is difficult to afford healthcare costs.

After Rosalyn Book got stiches on her chin, the elementary school teacher received a $15,000 ER bill from a local hospital, despite having insurance. Many teachers in her district leave because they can’t afford the cost of healthcare and insurance premiums, she said.

“The healthcare charges are just insanity, and what we get as patients for the care, it’s not the best either,” said Book, president of the Monterey Bay Teachers Association. “If you’re a working, regular individual in terms of how much you make, the cost of living and especially the healthcare is just not doable.”

Meanwhile, hospitals are warning there’s a risk of more closures. According to Yale University’s , 17 hospitals have closed in the state since 2016, compared with only six openings.

Hospitals and other healthcare providers have said the proposed multimillion-dollar penalties are too steep and could destabilize their operations at a time when they’re facing funding challenges, including massive federal cuts to Medicaid, the end of enhanced federal subsidies for Affordable Care Act plans, and a sharp rise in uninsured patients. The One Big Beautiful Bill Act, passed by congressional Republicans and signed by President Donald Trump last summer, is expected to reduce federal Medicaid spending by more than — including by in California — and increase the rolls of the uninsured in the U.S. by over a decade.

Johnson said hospitals raise prices on commercial payers to offset the expense of treating uninsured patients, as well as patients on Medicaid and Medicare, which can reimburse care providers at rates that fall short of treatment costs.

In addition, said Anete Millers, vice president of legal and regulatory affairs at the California Association of Health Plans, tax increases on managed-care plans recently to offset federal Medicaid cuts will force plans to increase their prices for consumers.

“Some spending pressures originate outside of the control of health plans and are the result of public policy decisions rather than underlying changes in healthcare utilization or efficiency,” she told the affordability office’s .

Kristof Stremikis, the director of market analysis and insight at the nonprofit California Health Care Foundation, acknowledged that external forces can drive costs but said that plenty of unnecessary spending is within the healthcare system’s control, such as administrative waste and duplicative tests and procedures. of U.S. healthcare spending is considered wasteful, according to .

Elizabeth Mitchell, a former Office of Health Care Affordability board member whose term ended in May, agreed.

“Every business has external challenges,” said Mitchell, who is now president and CEO of Purchaser Business Group on Health, a nonprofit coalition representing large employers. “The hospital industry has not taken accountability to actually manage costs. I have heard those excuses for decades, and at some point, they have to make changes.”

First Step To Bring Down Costs

of five states with cost growth benchmarks, published in June, found that some have succeeded in modestly slowing healthcare spending, particularly those with enforcement mechanisms. However, spending growth in most states has still set. 

Jeremy Vandehey, a consultant with the Peterson-Milbank Program for Sustainable Health Care Costs, said setting benchmarks and collecting data to analyze which entities meet them is only a first step. Armed with information about what and who is driving up costs, states are more empowered to take additional action, such as imposing penalties or regulating prices, to bring down costs, he said.

“I don’t think anybody in any state is declaring victory on healthcare costs, but I wouldn’t say that that means the programs are a failure,” Vandehey said. “In all of these states, there’s much more robust conversations happening about, OK, we haven’t solved our cost crisis, so we need additional action.”

51ÊÓƵ Health News is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at 51ÊÓƵ—an independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 51ÊÓƵ Health News and is republished here under a .

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New DOJ Guidance Could Give States Cover To Cut Disability Services /medicaid/wamu-health-hub-disability-services-funding-justice-department/ Fri, 21 Aug 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2276525&preview=true&preview_id=2276525 People with disabilities have long fought for the right to live at home rather than in institutions. Now, the Department of Justice says states don’t have to help make that happen.

The decision by the Trump administration comes amid massive cuts in federal funding for Medicaid. Advocates worry this could be a one-two punch for disabled Americans who want to live independently.

51ÊÓƵ Health News senior correspondent Stephanie Armour joined WAMU’s Health Hub on Aug. 19 to explain what this change means for Americans with disabilities and their loved ones.

51ÊÓƵ Health News is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at 51ÊÓƵ—an independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 51ÊÓƵ Health News and is republished here under a .

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Headless FDA Gets a New Nominee /podcast/what-the-health-460-fda-nominee-trump-heidi-overton-august-20-2026/ Thu, 20 Aug 2026 20:02:39 +0000 /?p=2275237&post_type=podcast&preview_id=2275237 The Host
Julie Rovner photo
Julie Rovner 51ÊÓƵ Health News Read Julie's stories. Julie Rovner is chief Washington correspondent and host of 51ÊÓƵ Health News’ weekly health policy news podcast, "What the Health?" A noted expert on health policy issues, Julie is the author of the critically praised reference book "Health Care Politics and Policy A to Z," now in its third edition.

Heidi Overton, a physician and White House domestic policy adviser, is President Donald Trump’s choice to be the next head of the Food and Drug Administration. Overton, an abortion opponent and supporter of Trump’s proposed changes to the childhood vaccine schedule, has made enemies while working on health policy from the White House and could face some tough questioning from senators.

Meanwhile, prescription drug prices are dropping for some people, and the wholesale retailer Costco is entering the Medicare market. Still, overall, the problem of healthcare being too expensive remains stubbornly hard to solve.

This week’s panelists are Julie Rovner of 51ÊÓƵ Health News, Joanne Kenen of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Politico Magazine, Shefali Luthra of The 19th, and Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico.

Panelists

Joanne Kenen photo
Joanne Kenen Johns Hopkins University and Politico
Shefali Luthra photo
Shefali Luthra The 19th
Alice Miranda Ollstein photo
Alice Miranda Ollstein Politico

Among the takeaways from this week’s episode:

  • Trump’s selection of Overton to lead the FDA is prompting concerns from a diverse crowd of skeptics that includes Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-La.) and adherents to the Make America Healthy Again movement. Her lack of managerial experience and history of controversial writings could be liabilities during the confirmation process, though Trump has a decent track record of clearing nominees through a hesitant Senate.
  • Grant money continues to be held up at the National Institutes of Health pending political reviews, and new reporting sheds light on “zombie programs” at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, where money has been appropriated but there’s no staff to use it. Plus, the trend of declining childhood immunizations continues, with vaccine exemptions for kindergartners jumping to another high.
  • New data shows the largest drop in prescription drug prices since the 1960s, and while the Trump administration is taking credit, it’s unclear what exactly caused it. Meanwhile, the federal government is investigating major health companies for allegedly dodging taxes or engaging in anticompetitive practices. And the wholesaler Costco is getting into the health insurance game, partnering with a nonprofit insurer to provide Medicare Advantage or Medigap plans in a few states.

Also this week, as part of the “How Would You Fix It?” series, Rovner interviews billionaire businessman Mark Cuban, who has already reshaped the generic drug market and now has his eye on the rest of the healthcare system.

Plus, for “extra credit” the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week that they think you should read, too: 

Julie Rovner: Mother Jones’ “,” by Sophie Hurwitz.

Shefali Luthra: The 19th’s “,” by Barbara Rodriguez.

Alice Miranda Ollstein: The Texas Observer’s “,” by Mary Tuma.

Joanne Kenen: Politico’s “,” by Owen Dahlkamp.

Also mentioned in this week’s podcast:

Click to open the transcript Transcript: Headless FDA Gets a New Nominee

[Editor’s note: This transcript was generated using transcription software. It has been edited for style and clarity.] 

Julie Rovner: Hello, from 51ÊÓƵ Health News and WAMU Public Radio in Washington, D.C. Welcome to What the Health? I’m Julie Rovner, chief Washington correspondent for 51ÊÓƵ Health News. And, as always, I’m joined by some of the best and smartest health reporters covering Washington. We’re taping this week on Thursday, Aug. 20, at 10 a.m. As always, news happens fast, and things might have changed by the time you hear this. So here we go. Today we are joined via video conference by Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico. 

Alice Miranda Ollstein: Hello. 

Rovner: Shefali Luthra of The 19th. 

Shefali Luthra: Hello. 

Rovner: And Joanne Kenen of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Politico Magazine. 

Joanne Kenen: Hi, everybody. 

Rovner: Later in this episode, we’ll have another “How Would You Fix It?” interview, from his car, with businessman and entrepreneur Mark Cuban, who’s now devoting most of his professional attention to the mess that is U.S. healthcare. But first, this week’s news. So, we finally have a nominee to lead the Food and Drug Administration, which has been without a Senate-confirmed commissioner since Marty Makary resigned in May — officially, over a dispute about flavored vapes. The winner of the search is Heidi Overton, a 37-year-old physician and former protégé of Makary’s from Johns Hopkins, who currently oversees the health portfolio at the White House Domestic Policy Council. What do we know about Dr. Overton, and what are her prospects for confirmation? We’ve already seen HELP [Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions] Committee Chairman Bill Cassidy say on social media that he has “concerns” about her, but he’s voted for nominees about whom he’s had concerns as recently as — checks notes — earlier this month. 

Kenen: I mean, Cassidy’s saying he has concerns is not indicative of where this ends up. At the end of the day, President [Donald] Trump has gotten most of his choices through a Senate that often begins hesitant to recalcitrant and usually gives him what he wants. So … sometimes it doesn’t. I mean, it’s not 100%. So, Cassidy is in a different position politically since he’s about to leave the Senate, and partly because President Trump. So we just don’t know where Cassidy is. But it’s not a great start. But it doesn’t mean … it’s the end. 

Rovner: What do we know about Heidi Overton, though? Everything I’ve read about her, she’s either pro-MAHA [Make America Healthy Again] or the MAHA people don’t like her, or she’s, you know, of Marty Makary or not of Marty McCarry. 

Ollstein: Yeah. So my colleagues and I wrote about this yesterday, and a lot of the leading MAHA activists view her as having been a roadblock in the White House to their efforts around pesticides, around vaccines, and other things, and so they are up in arms about the pick. They are, you know, saying she’s … part of the swamp and not part of, you know, the movement that they want to see sweep aside some of these government practices. And I think that her time in the White House and her previous work for the America First Policy Institute could really come back to haunt her. She wrote a lot of papers and op-eds with some controversial takes and policy positions, and I think everybody is sort of scrambling to go over that. People are also talking about her lack of managerial experience. You know, managing a huge agency with a huge staff, and you know, obviously, we have seen recent examples of people who lack that experience being appointed. So that’s also not a deal-breaker necessarily. But all of these things could add up to be problematic for her in the confirmation process. And then what I focused on was her anti-abortion record, which, you know, both could help and hurt her depending on whose votes we’re talking about. 

Rovner: That’s right. I mean, we saw [Sen.] Patty Murray, senior member of the HELP Committee, come out and, you know, and say, Not somebody that I could ever vote for. And also, I mean, she was at the signing of the vaccine executive order that the president had. So that puts her — whether, whatever she says in her confirmation hearings — that sort of puts her with the “Let’s change the vaccine schedule” group. I mean, she seems to fit in nowhere. I guess that’s sort of my question here. 

Luthra: That’s what’s so interesting about her is that there are these sorts of different interests and constituencies that have concerns about her, but sometimes they feel as if they could be contradictory. You obviously have, I mean, Patty Murray — I don’t know if she was ever going to vote for whoever Trump picked — but then you have Susan Collins in a very difficult reelection race, where abortion is a concern. You now have these concerns about vaccines. You have people saying maybe she’s not MAHA enough. And I mean, I think to Joanne’s point, Trump has gotten most people he has wanted. However, this does feel like this could get very complicated, just given how many people may be bringing different criticism from different vantages that could ultimately add up. 

Kenen: I’m not sure we’ve ever seen anything on the Senate floor where she’s going to be called anti-abortion and pro-pesticide. If it gets to the floor, I mean, it’s a weird one. But at the end of the day, you know, does it go through? You know, if you made me bet, my bet would be yes, but I wouldn’t want to bet a whole lot of money. 

Rovner: Well … we’re going to talk about reproductive health later in the podcast, but I do want to talk about abortion right now in the context of this nomination because, Alice, as you point out, Overton is known to be a fairly strident abortion opponent, and if she is confirmed, she’ll take over the study of the safety of the abortion pill mifepristone, which, as we have mentioned many, many, many times, the administration has sort of backbenched, if you will. Given that the new attorney general, Todd Blanche, has raised the specter of invoking the 1873 Comstock Act to bar the mailing of abortion pills, or anything else used for abortions, what is the outlook for medication abortion if Overton actually becomes the FDA commissioner? 

Ollstein: Well, it’s hard to say because we’ve really seen decision-making centralized in the White House, and so often it doesn’t matter what the Cabinet secretaries want to do. It’s about what the White House wants. And the White House, I think, has made it pretty clear that this is not a top, you know, restricting abortion is not a top priority for them. They are certainly sensitive to the politics of it, and so there is speculation that, you know, there’s a delay until after the midterms for anything meaningful on this front, so as not to risk the kind of backlash we saw in 2022 after the fall of Roe v. Wade. But I think it’s also pretty clear that this is just not a top priority for the White House. That doesn’t mean they won’t allow some of these, you know, former activists to do what they want to do — so Blanche, and now Overton potentially. But I think it’s not really a given either way. 

Rovner: Yeah. All right. Well, meanwhile, in administration news that we’ve talked about before but is still relevant, we’re just over a month from the end of the fiscal year, and grant money is still being held up at the National Institutes of Health, according to our podcast pal Paige [Winfield] Cunningham at NOTUS. Despite pressure from Congress, the agency is still delaying funds for already-approved grants while it conducts searches for keywords that could signal that the grant does not adhere to the administration’s political priorities. And it’s not just keywords. Reading from : “In multiple flagged grants, officials expressed concerns that they weren’t worth funding because their only practical use might be to support the writing of new laws.” Now, this is going on against the backdrop of a proposal from the Office of Management and Budget that would officially insert political approval into grant funding. That’s something the Senate has voted to at least temporarily block, but the House hasn’t weighed in on it yet. This could not only have huge implications for federally funded research going forward, but you could argue it’s having implications now. We’re seeing researchers, you know, taking opportunities overseas because they don’t know what their, you know, grant funding continuation is going to look like, and students not going to graduate school or not pursuing research careers. I mean, this is … even some of these sort of small things are having these bigger potential ripples as they go outward, right? 

Kenen: Colleagues who are grant-funded, NIH-funded, or other government-funded. I mean, they try to track the ever-changing rules. First of all, it’s very murky. It is changing. They keep adding things. Basically, they don’t want — not just the banned words — they don’t want research that can be bad, that can be used for policy …  

Rovner: For things they disagree with, for policies they disagree with. 

Kenen: They don’t say it … right. Guidance doesn’t come out and say “policy that you know we don’t like.” It just says “policy.” But it’s really vast and confusing. It’s not new. What Paige wrote about is an update. I mean, this is still happening. It’s been happening since the beginning of the Trump administration. NIH is the biggie. There are some smaller agencies, like Agency for Healthcare Quality and Research [sic], AHRQ, right? 

Rovner: Research and Quality. 

Kenen: Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality. That’s pretty much defunct now. But those grants, the money stopped going out the door many months ago. So …  

Rovner: And the National Science Foundation. I mean, NIH is sort of the biggest of them. Yeah. 

Kenen: It has to have the word “science.” … NIH is the biggie, right? I mean, and it’s also the bench science, the science that the drug industry … people don’t understand, they say, Let the drug industry do it. They can’t do this kind of basic bench research. They take this research and develop drugs, but the fundamental cellular level is NIH, or NIH-funded. And it’s really, I mean, clinical trials have been stopped in the middle — really promising research that is not partisan. … Disease doesn’t care. It’s cliché, and it’s also true. It just stopped, and work has been lost. But people haven’t done things that are several years in. … The deadline, also, for fiscal year spending is, if it’s not out the door, which is Sept 30, anything that’s out that door is, like, that’s done. It’s it. Bye-bye. The money isn’t gonna, unless it would go through a whole new process next year, which is unlikely in these grants, that’s the end of that. 

Rovner: Yeah, and that’s, I mean, my point in wanting to bring this up again — and you’re right, it is sort of an update of what we’ve seen — is that every time one of these top administration officials comes to Congress, they say, You’re supposed to be spending the money that we have appropriated, and they say, Oh yeah, not a problem. We’re going to spend the money that you’ve appropriated. And yet we keep seeing these stories that they are not spending money that Congress has appropriated. 

Kenen: Yeah, and historically NIH has been reasonably bipartisan. There have been years when there have been fights. There’s obviously stem cells and sort of certain issues have been, you know, very hot potato. But the basic enterprise of U.S. science, health science, has been largely bipartisan. Again, not every appropriation season, not every bill. But if you look at the overall arc, it’s bipartisan. 

Rovner: It was Republicans who doubled NIH funding in the 1990s — who led it.  

Kenen: [Arlen] Specter. 

Rovner: It was Newt Gingrich, actually. I mean. 

Kenen: Yeah, Gingrich, too, was very into health tech and things like that before his time. I mean, the War on Cancer was federal, right? That was [President Richard] Nixon. So, but we’re now in a …  

Rovner: Different place. 

Kenen: Yeah, frozen. 

Rovner: Yeah. Meanwhile, Mike Stobbe at the AP is at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention — again, where money’s been appropriated, but there is literally nobody at home. At the agency’s Office on Smoking and Health, and offices on Alzheimer’s disease, epilepsy, and sickle cell data collection, funds are allocated, but all the staffers have either been laid off or are still on administrative leave. So they’re being paid, but they are banned from working. This is yet another immediate challenge for new CDC Director Erica Schwartz, who had her first meeting with CDC staff yesterday. What do we expect her to take on first? 

Luthra: I don’t envy her. It, frankly, seems very difficult to figure out what your priorities are or should be, if you perhaps don’t have staff. It does seem like, from the reporting, perhaps a priority that she has outlined might be morale. And we know that morale has been very low in a lot of government agencies and the executive — especially places like the CDC, where you have a lot of career people who are mission-oriented, really believe in doing things for public health, and have seen that really attacked. And so I don’t know if that is enough to actually translate into things that are supposed to happen actually happening. But that seems like probably a place where it makes sense to start, right?, is just to help people feel confident that they actually will be able to do the work that they signed up to do. 

Rovner: Yeah, and you know, as you say, CDC is perhaps the most mission-oriented of all the HHS agencies. And because they’re in Atlanta, and you know not in the Washington area the way most of the rest of HHS is, they do often feel cut off. So she does have … she has a lot on her plate. And speaking of the CDC, the agency put out a rather cryptic press release this week on vaccine uptake among kindergartners entering school, noting that “CDC continues to encourage parents to discuss vaccination options with their doctors.” Meanwhile, the data linked to in the press release shows a small increase in parents opting out of having their children vaccinated nationwide. But that masks a much larger increase in some states. In Idaho, for example, just 75% of kindergartners entering school have had the MMR [measles, mumps, and rubella] vaccine. That’s obviously well below the 95% needed to provide herd immunity for measles. As my friend Jonathan Cohn put it in his piece for The Bulwark. “The scientific term for that is yikes.” Yikes indeed. 

Kenen: And it’s even within states … and some rural counties … there’s a lot of variation. The trend … for a number of years now has been dropping vaccine rates. Period. So I mean, whether CDC wants to engage in this as their first issue, they’re going to be asked about it. … They track it … can’t avoid it, because they have to approve and recommend, and, you know, insurance coverage, all sorts of things are imminent. So decisions have to be made. … Back to school’s already started in some parts of the country. 

Rovner: And so … I would say new CDC Director Schwartz was rather pointedly not in the room when the president signed the executive order on vaccines, even though now-FDA nominee Heidi Overton was. 

Kenen: She cannot put her head in the sand on this one. She’s going to have to … 

Rovner: “She” Schwartz?  

Kenen: Yeah. So she’s she says, I mean, what we know so far is she’s been quite, you know, she went to the CDC, and the reports are that she came out and said, you know, I’m going to stick to the science, and the science supports vaccines.  

Ollstein: I thought what was really interesting about the recent reports is that, you know, the executive order the Trump administration signed doesn’t actually change anything legally, but it’s designed to put pressure on states to change their recommendations. And it’s been fascinating to me to see that even the reddest states really aren’t going for it yet. But that doesn’t mean that everything’s fine and everyone’s getting vaccinated. What we are seeing is, you know, individual parents making these moves away from vaccination. And so even without the state officially changing its requirements, the environment is just shifting, and using the bully pulpit in this way is changing people’s behavior — building on trends that were already happening: distrust and misinformation, and all of that. And so … even a small, small decline in the vaccination rate can have huge negative effects. I mean, the difference between having 97% vaccination vs. 91% — it may not seem like a big deal, but that’s the difference between herd immunity and people really being vulnerable. 

Rovner: And lots and lots more cases of measles, as we are seeing already this year. I mean, it’s, you know, talk about things that were completely predictable. Well, meanwhile, as my 51ÊÓƵ Health News colleagues Amanda Seitz and Stephanie Armour point out this week, all of this public pronouncing by the president and other health officials about the supposed dangers of vaccines comes as HHS Secretary RFK Jr. blows past deadline after deadline to uncover the promised cause of the rising cases of autism. The story notes that the secretary “has looking for root causes in a research effort that’s offered no public status updates and few details about who, or even which agency, is leading the effort.” We do know that one of the people working on the project is Reyn Archer — he’s a noted vaccine critic, son of a former House Ways and Means Committee chairman, and was head of the Title X Family Planning Program during the George H.W. Bush administration in the early 1990s — even as he was publicly opposing legalized birth control, which of course is what the Title X program does. He later served as Texas’ state health commissioner under then-Gov. George W. Bush, although he was eventually fired for making racist remarks to a subordinate. I had not heard his name since, until now. But he’s going to uncover the root causes of autism, am I right? That’s the plan? 

Kenen: More power to him. I mean, autism. It’s not like there’s no research, and the conclusion is that it’s multi-causal. That there’s not one cause. That’s the current state of the science, which can always evolve. But the current belief is there’s probably a genetic component, but it’s a mix of factors that we don’t fully understand. But vaccines is not one of them. 

Rovner: Or at least so every study, every big study, we have seen continues to say. Well, moving on, lots of news about healthcare prices this week, which remain a pressing issue for both Republican and Democratic voters as the midterms draw near. One interesting story this week noted that prescription drug prices fell year over year by more than 3% — that’s the largest drop since the early 1960s — but it’s not entirely clear why. The Trump administration, of course, says it was their efforts, particularly to bring down the price of those popular but very expensive GLP-1 weight loss drugs. Analysts say it’s more likely the result of the Biden-era Medicare drug price negotiations, which involved more widely used medications. Whichever, I imagine if you’re not seeing your prices drop at the pharmacy, and those drops may well be absorbed by insurers and middlemen and all the people we talk about, will this good news even have much of an impact when people go to the polls? 

Luthra: I can’t imagine it necessarily would be that meaningful because overall the macro trends remain pretty bad. Health insurance is still getting very expensive. Employers are really struggling — those that offer it — they are largely passing more costs to consumers. And so people are getting to have to pay more for healthcare, even if their drug prices may be decreasing in the aggregate. And so it’s just hard to really suggest that this good news could really outweigh those other factors, especially when you think about the broader sort of angst that exists around costs and costs continuing to go up. 

Rovner: Yeah, well, in wonky news that could actually have a larger impact on what people pay for medical care, the Trump administration is actually going after some deep-pocketed healthcare providers. Stat News reports, in separate stories, first that the — that’s the parent of UnitedHealthcare, the insurer, and Optum, the services and tech arm — for allegedly underpaying taxes by funneling money through a foreign subsidiary. And second, the for potential antitrust violations. State attorneys general are also looking at Epic’s alleged anticompetitive practices. Cracking down on some of the monopolistic practices of the largest payers in the healthcare system actually could end up saving the system money, right? I mean, this was … something that we saw a fair bit of during the Biden administration, particularly from the Federal Trade Commission, and not so much of during the Trump administration, which has seemed to have been more favorable, if you will, to big companies. 

Luthra: I guess there’s still that question about providers, and obviously bringing down prices and addressing consolidation in payers, amongst things like electronic health record companies, can be effective, but we probably also would want to see meaningful movement in terms of provider consolidation as well, and that just seems potentially like a bigger hill to climb. 

Rovner: But this is a start. One would say, particularly this administration, going after United, which is sort of the the biggest … United’s power threatens the federal government’s bargaining power at this point. I was interested to see, you know, this story, if nothing else, made public, because obviously somebody leaked it. We will see how these all shake out. Well, finally, Costco, home of the cheap rotisserie chicken and the $1.50 hot dog and soda, is entering the Medicare market, . According to the Journal, Costco will partner with the nonprofit SCAN Group to offer Medicare Advantage plans in two states and a Medicare supplement, Medigap, plan in a third state. Could this eventually make a dent in the private Medicare market? Costco already does big business selling discount prescription drugs, eyeglasses, and hearing aids. I get my dog’s flea and tick medication at Costco. It costs half of what it does at my vet’s office. One presumes this could be, you know, a leader. We’ve not seen this before, right? 

Kenen: The head of SCAN, which is a pretty reputable insurance company … 

Rovner: Nonprofit insurance company. 

Kenen: Nonprofit insurance, and I should say I know … personally the current CEO, president, whatever his post is. I mean, but you know, I’ve written a lot about aging over the years, and it’s basically considered … one of the higher-quality, more reliable elderly-focused health plans. And he has something interesting to write when he announced it or wrote about on LinkedIn about how he personally, like, is a big Costco guy. But he talked about trust, which we’re all talking all the time about how there’s a lack of trust in healthcare. There’s a lot of trust in Costco, and he talked about how branding, SCAN, and Costco, you know … obviously it’s a business decision he made, but he’s also, like, this big Costco guy and who worries — I know him through conferences on trust, actually, that’s where I met him — and he’s thinking, OK, Costco, in addition to, like, giving you way too much of whatever it is you thought you needed, it can also fix the trust crisis in America. Right? 

Rovner: Hey! 

Kenen: And they’re efficient, right? I mean, I don’t know if all four of us are Costco people, but the, you know … 

Rovner: I am. 

Kenen: I saw her. I ran into her buying her veterinarian [unintelligible, through laughter] … I was in the photo section. … It is a trusted brand, and it’s an interesting — and they have national reach in there, you know. 

Rovner: And you will hear in my conversation with Mark Cuban that trust is a really big deal in healthcare right now. I mean, we obviously talk about this every week. I mean, I’m, obviously this is a very small step, but I’m really interested in where it turns out. 

Kenen: It’s a smart business move, and it’s a talker, too. Like, people are gonna see this headline and pay attention to it because it’s, like, just a thing. 

Rovner: Yeah, it is. All right, we’re going to take a quick break. We will be right back. 

So, a good bit of reproductive health news this week. Glad to have both Alice and Shefali here. We will start in Idaho, where a federal district court judge ruled that the state’s abortion ban cannot be used to prosecute doctors who perform abortions to protect the pregnant person’s health, not just her life. Of course, abortion opponents vehemently oppose health exceptions, as they’re called, because they say health includes mental health, and that becomes a loophole so big that it basically eviscerates the ban. The state’s attorney general, former congressman Raúl Labrador, said he would appeal and was confident the decision would be overturned. I would imagine that he’s probably right. Is the Supreme Court eventually going to have to spell this out? I wouldn’t be that surprised if they wanted to. 

Ollstein: I think this gets into some of the same EMTALA [Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act] territory, where we have seen the Supreme Court sort of back away from in recent years. But again, we just keep circling around and around the same question, which is, when is an abortion OK for a medical emergency purpose? How close to dying does a woman have to get before a doctor can perform an abortion? And we’ve seen again and again in Idaho that doctors are scared and confused, and even when they think that they should have the right to perform the procedure, you know, they’re still putting women on these dangerous life flights to other states in order to get care, leading to hours and hours of delays and potential complications. And so, you know, this court case and this court ruling was sort of aimed at clarifying that and giving doctors the confidence to be able to intervene when they feel it’s medically necessary. But now we’re seeing the state challenge that, and we’re just going around and around. And, you know, there have been similar cases in other states, just a whole mix of rulings, one way or the other, and that just creates more of a patchwork where, you know, some somebody’s ability to get care varies completely between states — and even within states, between hospitals, based on how much you know institutional backing doctors feel like they have. You know, will their hospital’s lawyers go to the mat for them or not? Do they work in a private practice vs. a big hospital system? All of these things come into play, 

Rovner: And, of course, we’ve also seen doctors, particularly in Idaho, leaving the state because they’re afraid that they can’t practice. I mean, they can’t adequately care for their patients. Shefali, I see you nodding. 

Luthra: Yeah, and what’s interesting about this case, other than the fact that Idaho will actually have an abortion ballot measure this November, is that we do have a federal judge here saying, in particular contexts, I see a right to an abortion. And I was talking to some abortion legal scholars about this, and they made the point that, in a way, this runs afoul of the Dobbs decision, because you do have a federal judge saying people are actually entitled to abortions, and that is a right that they have, even if it is much narrower than what Roe v. Wade guaranteed. And obviously, this is going to be appealed. This is going to continue to be litigated. We may not see immediate change for people’s ability to get healthcare in Idaho or other places with very strict bans, but it does underscore how unsettled these legal questions remain — how there remains a lot of debate over whether Dobbs was actually a correct interpretation of constitutional law. And I think it really takes us back to the argument we heard from some of the conservative majority that this would now settle every question about abortion. Obviously, it has not. Obviously, many more questions will continue to be argued and litigated in the courts. 

Rovner: Yeah. Well, meanwhile, in other breaking news, a federal judge here in Washington blocked the Trump administration’s changes to the teen pregnancy prevention program that funds classes on contraception and abstinence, among other things. But they’re still not necessarily getting the money appropriated by Congress, right, Alice? 

Ollstein: So a judge in D.C. is blocking the administration from using its very strict new guidance going forward when it doles out money for the program, but it’s not ordering the administration to give back the money that was already cut earlier this summer from all of these grantees around the country. And, by the way, the money was cut both from grantees like Planned Parenthood, where you would say, “Oh, well, that sort of makes sense that the administration would go after their money.” But they’re also cutting funding from, you know, faith-based programs, abstinence-only programs in very red states, and prompting a fair amount of backlash that I’ve been covering. You know, places like Texas and South Carolina and West Virginia have also lost funding. And, of course, all the programs in those states had to abide by state restrictions around what can be taught. And so they were already following these very conservative guidelines. But that’s not conservative enough for the administration, which put out this guidance saying, you know, while abstinence-only was an option before, now it is basically mandatory. And so that guidance is on hold, but, again, the judge said that he didn’t know if he had the authority to order them to give back the money, or if some other jurisdiction could handle that. And so, this is just a preliminary injunction, which means there’s going to be months and months of litigation going forward. 

Rovner: Finally, this week, a story from the “Who Could Ever Have Imagined This?” files: A California couple hired a surrogate in Alaska to carry their pregnancy. After the fetus was diagnosed with a life-threatening heart condition, the couple exercised their option in the surrogacy contract to terminate the pregnancy. But the surrogate refused to have an abortion, and she traveled to Texas, where abortion is illegal, and gave birth to a baby boy last week. News reports say the baby, who is now in the custody of the couple who are biologically his parents, had the first of several surgeries needed to treat the heart condition. But this is a genuinely wrenching situation. Who gets to decide what here and under which state’s laws? Bioethicist Arthur Caplan told Houston Public Media that there are so many ethical issues here, he could spend an entire semester’s course teaching it. 

Luthra: And I think what is important about this case as well is, I mean, it’s obviously just like so, so, so sad, and this poor family is just having to deal with something really heartbreaking that no one should have to navigate under the national spotlight in Texas. It is really energizing conservatives who want to ban surrogacy, and we have already heard from lawmakers in the state legislature say they will be looking at surrogacy specifically when they convene next year. I have talked to anti-abortion activists in the state who are very hopeful that this case will give them new impetus to ban, at the very least, commercial surrogacy. They would love to ban all forms of surrogacy. And it is seen by a lot of anti-abortion folks who oppose fertility treatment, including IVF [in vitro fertilization], as something maybe easier to target. And I think it’s politically really complicated, because Americans don’t know as many people who get pregnant through surrogacy as they do people who might use IVF. But when I was talking to, again, legal experts about this, one point they made is that if surrogacy restrictions do take off in a meaningful way, often, the intellectual framework and arguments being made are ultimately the ones that would be used for IVF restrictions as well. And so, there is a possibility of a real slippery slope and more of that opening the door to fertility treatment restrictions that could affect a lot of people. 

Kenen: I think there’s a lot of public misunderstanding about what a gestational carrier is. When surrogacy became, not common, but sort of emerged in the public eye, there were a couple of really high-profile court cases. This was in the late ’80s. The “Baby M” was the most famous. And these were situations, at that point, where the woman carrying the child, it was her egg. So in the Baby M case, it was a couple that couldn’t have children. She was-— I don’t even know if that was — that wasn’t probably IVF. That was probably some other kind of artificial insemination. But the woman who decided she didn’t want to give up the baby after carrying it — it was, in fact, her biological child — and the practice became not to let, to separate the surrogate carrier from the egg donor. It’s not 100%. It’s not that it never happens, particularly if there’s family situations where maybe an aunt carries, etc. In this case, we’re really, based on public record, because I did a little reading on it this morning, it’s not clear, of the “biological parents,” it’s his baby. It’s not 100% clear on the public record that it’s actually her egg, the wife’s egg. But it is not the carrier’s egg. The woman suing to keep the child, saying she wants to have the baby, it is not her, it was not her egg. State law varies. Most states say that the surrogate in this kind of situation does not have maternal rights; that it’s the couple that hired her. Texas is, I believe, more blurry. There are a few states that it is more ambiguous, and also remember that this is a really tight, unusually and unexpectedly tight Senate race in Texas, where a very anti-abortion state, obviously, and also in this case the couple says they didn’t even ask for the abortion, but that’s he-said-she-said-they-said, we don’t know. I don’t know, at least, right? But abortion is a huge political driver in Texas; it’s a close race. [Ken] Paxton, who is the state attorney general, who is taking the side of the surrogate mother, is also the Senate candidate. You know, this is, you know, we’re 2½ months out, whatever, from the election. Three, I guess, closer to three still. But it’s very political in a state that probably has more politics around abortion than probably any other state. 

Rovner: Just what we needed: another thorny issue to throw into this mix. All right, that is this week’s news, or at least as much of it as we could get to. Now we will play my in-the-car interview with Mark Cuban, and then we’ll come back and do our extra credits. 

I am so pleased to welcome businessman and entrepreneur Mark Cuban to “How Would You Fix It?” Mark is probably best known to most people as a former shark on the TV show Shark Tank and the former [co-]owner of the Dallas Mavericks NBA team. But he’s also the co-founder of the Mark Cuban Cost Plus Drugs company, which sells generic medications directly to consumers at transparent prices and big discounts. More recently, he’s been talking about even bigger reforms to the healthcare system, which is why I’m so excited to have him here. Mark Cuban, thank you so much for joining us. 

Mark Cuban: Thanks for having me. 

Rovner: I’m curious: Your background’s been mostly in tech and in sports. How did you come to make healthcare such a priority? 

Cuban: I got a cold email from my now co-founder, Dr. Alex Oshmyansky, and he wanted to build a compounding pharmacy that made sterile injectables that are on the FDA short-supply list — which it’s crazy that there is a short-supply list for generic injectables. So that was great, but it wasn’t big enough. And as I looked into it, it was right around the time that “pharma bro” [Martin Shkreli] was going to jail, and I was like, “How can this dude jack up the price of a generic medication to the detriment of so many people?” And then it became obvious that nobody knew what a medication costs, nobody knew why it cost what it costs, and nobody understood why everybody paid a different price for the same medication. That list led to us launching costplusdrugs.com in January of 2022, and it’s just been growing like a weed ever since. 

Rovner: For decades now, the big debate in health policy has been whether the system should be more run by the government or more run by the private sector. Is that even the right way to focus on this anymore? Now everything is sort of hybrid and a mess. 

Cuban: Yeah, no, it’s not, because if the government doesn’t have data, and the government can’t trust the vendors that they’re working with, it doesn’t matter that it’s the government doing all the negotiating. And you see that in other countries. For instance, we get emails from countries around the world — from Canada, England — asking to buy generics from us ’cause our prices for generics, particularly specialty generics, are less expensive than what they sell for in countries that have single-payer or universal care. And so, while I’m not opposed to single-payer or universal healthcare at all, and kind of the analogy I use is: If healthcare costs $1 per person per year — yeah, great, taxpayers would pay that. But it would be a set $1 and it’d be obviously inexpensive. But when you don’t know all the costs, when there’s no transparency, it’s impossible to determine if it’s a better solution or not. 

Rovner: Are there segments of the healthcare industry that would work better if the private sector ran them, and better if the government ran them? I’m thinking, you know, hospitals, doctors, drugs.  

Cuban: I don’t think it’s like that at all. I think it depends on how much transparency there is. The fundamental issue is transparency and trust. If you don’t know … like, there are a lot of hospitals, and you know this better than anybody, that don’t know their costs. And if you just hire the same people and just say, “Look, we’re going to pay Medicare pricing to Mayo Clinic, and Mayo Clinic doesn’t know all their costs,” or “We’re going to take an urban hospital and continue to pay them Medicare and Medicaid because that’s most of their business,” and they don’t know their cost, they just know their cash balance, it doesn’t matter who runs it. 

Rovner: So, what do you fix first? 

Cuban: Transparency. You have to be able to publish contracts so that any contract that’s signed with a federal agency, the federal government, a state agency, a city, not only are the terms of the contract published, but the prices are published, so that Tricare would be required to publish their prices. By seeing the actual contract, you can see where the city-state agency is getting ripped off. Because right now there’s confidentiality requirements, and the companies, like the big insurance conglomerates, they say, you know, we can’t do this. We can’t show this, it’s proprietary information, which is nonsense. You’ve got hundreds of thousands of companies. You’ve got hundreds of agencies and states and cities that negotiate the same contracts. So lots of people know, but they do it to make it more complicated. And so, as a result, nobody knows how the deals are structured. And if you don’t know how the deals are structured, it’s impossible to negotiate better ones. And if they’ll sue you for discussing it with their peers, then nobody … it’s like Fight Club. The No. 1 rule [of] Fight Club is you can’t talk about Fight Club. The No. 1 rule of healthcare contracts is you can’t talk about healthcare contracts. 

Rovner: Yeah, and we’ve, you know, Congress has passed laws. The president has pushed a lot of these transparency rules, and basically, the health industry has said, “Yep, sorry, we can’t do it,” or “We’re going to do it in such a way that you can’t find it out anyway.” 

Cuban: Correct. 

Rovner: “We’re going to send you reams and reams and reams of data, and you can go digging if you would like.” 

Cuban: Correct. And so you take that to the next step. The big healthcare companies — first of all, they’re vertically integrated. They have hundreds, if not thousands, of subsidiaries. People don’t even know what the subsidiaries are when they do business with them, right? And so, when that happens, there’s just no way for any of the states, cities, federal government to enforce the laws. The big healthcare companies have more lawyers, move faster, are better able to find loopholes than the government and the agencies that enforce it are able to enforce it. And so, what ends up happening. You see all these fines. This PBM, this insurance company, whatever got fined for A, B, or C, and then they just go right back to doing business with them. So when I talk to governors, one of the first things I say in terms of reform is A) publish the contracts, and B) if you are doing business with a vertically integrated healthcare company, and they are fined by any federal agency or any state government, they get one mulligan. If they are fined a second time, they can’t do business with you for five years. That will act as the enforcement mechanism to keep them in line. And then the third thing that I always push is that anybody is able to go out and make a cash purchase, whether it’s medical or pharmacy, as long as it’s less expensive than their out-of-pocket, and have it by law count towards their deductible and max out-of-pocket. When you do that, you give them the opportunity to shop. When something is shoppable — not everything is — but you give them the opportunity to shop, and that helps force down prices. 

Rovner: So, I’ve been doing this since the 1980s, and it’s always been the Democrats beating up on the big insurance companies, and the Republicans basically defending them. Now that Republicans are beating up on the big insurance companies, are we kind of inevitably going towards a government-run single-payer? 

Cuban: No. Like, if you look up, if you look at the Break Up Big Medicine bill that was introduced by Josh Hawley, a Republican, and Elizabeth Warren, to me that’s the first step. So the good news: It was introduced on a bipartisan basis. Because if you break up these big, huge conglomerates, everything changes. The price of everything drops like a rock. But the problem is, nobody else, no senators have supported it, and nobody in the House has introduced a comparable bill. Everybody just chickened out. And so that’s the first step. Put aside the economics. Put aside that we don’t know the cost. Put aside that we have no transparency. All those things are important, but making sure we have health care for everybody is more important. That’s the difference. I think that also should be an American dream. As an entrepreneur, I’m a big fan of the American dream. But being able to be healthy and not be afraid that you can’t afford what you need or your family needs, that’s wrong in our American dream. And you know, when we talk about healthcare as a right, doctors freak out because they presume that they’re going to be paid Medicare rates, and they lose control of their life, right? And they talk about opting out and not doing it, you know. And so you need to get all these stakeholders accounted for. And until you start to do that and put together a plan that people will accept, we’re not going to ever be in a position to take care of people like so many of us hope to do. 

Rovner: And yet that would require both parties to basically lay down their arms.  

 

Cuban: Yes, which I think is possible. I think it’s doable because the No. 1 thing that, in every poll, people are concerned about healthcare costs. It’s not the quality of healthcare. Nobody really complains about the quality. Our doctors are great. Our systems are great. It’s the economic side. And who defines the economic side? Those humongous healthcare conglomerates. And what’s the best way to get to a point where we have transparency at the contract level, you know, flexibility and understanding, etc., all the things I mentioned? You break up those huge conglomerates that have thousands of subsidiaries that do $150-plus billion in intercompany transfers, that game the medical loss ratio. I mean, all these things happen because those big companies have more control over the economics of our healthcare system than the government does. 

Rovner: Well, I hope we actually get to that point, and I hope you’re around to help with some of these stakeholder conversations. 

Cuban: Oh, hopefully I’m not going anywhere. 

Rovner: Thank you so much. 

OK, we’re back. It’s time for our extra-credit segment. That’s where we each recognize a story we read this week we think you should read, too. Don’t worry if you miss it. We will post the links in our show notes on your phone or other mobile device. Shefali, you picked first. Why don’t you go first this week? 

Luthra: Sure. My story is from The 19th by my colleague Barbara Rodriguez. The headline is “.” And I love this whole genre of story. The GLP-1 market is exploding because these drugs can be so expensive to get from your healthcare provider. You see advertisements everywhere, all over social media, people promising to sell you a GLP-1. And as Barbara’s story gets into, often they are not actually GLP-1s. It is something fake. It is not actually going to help you lose weight, but it is going to take your money. And I just think that this is such an exploding market. So much has changed that we can’t read enough about how the, just the growth of options, or not legitimate options, is affecting people, and I’m really glad she did this story. 

Rovner: Yeah, it was a really good story. Alice. 

Ollstein: I have a story from The Texas Observer by Mary Tuma, and it’s called “.” So this is taking a deep dive on the situation in Texas, but the article does a good job of pointing out that this is a trend across several states that implemented abortion bans, where there was, you know, efforts to pause or revamp, or obscure, or change in some way the groups in every, that exist in every state that study maternal deaths. And there is just a suspicion that this is an attempt to hide from the public the impact of the abortion ban on maternal mortality. You have a lot of experts quoted in this piece. You have the family members who have lost their wives and mothers to pregnancy-related deaths, and so this is just an ongoing fight. And, you know, doctors say we really need this data and this analysis to know how to better provide care in the future. It’s not just a political football; it’s actual medical knowledge that we need to build. 

Rovner: Yeah, I think ProPublica did this for Georgia, I think, last year, so yet another in these series. Joanne. 

Kenen: There’s a story in Politico by Owen Dahlkamp: “.” This is not unique to health law, but given how complicated health law is and how much health law Congress deals with in any given year, it’s quite relevant to health law. So staffers are using AI to actually draft legislation, not just to research something. And I mean, it’s hard to get away from AI now. It’s, like, even pops up on people’s phones, right? But drafting legislation is very precise and complicated, and AI is apparently not very good at it. So the House counsel, which is the Office of Legal Counsel, which actually has to make sure the legislative language is correct and doesn’t accidentally reveal the wrong thing, they’re having a hard time. Although they have now created their own tool to try to correct the AI slop, but they’re getting overwhelmed. There’s, you know, we’ve all seen stories, we’ve all gotten pitches about, you know, so-and-so introduced a law. What the general public doesn’t understand is introducing a law, you know, it’s good for a press release — introducing a bill, excuse me. Introducing a bill does not mean a whole hell of a lot, except that you’re satisfying some constituent or constituent group, right? But congresspeople and senators like to say they introduce this and they introduce that and they introduce the other thing. So the number of bills being introduced was already rising spectacularly, and now with the slop, there’s like the slopth degree of it. So it’s messy. 

Rovner: It is messy, and it does, I mean, it sort of prevents the real work of actually drafting legislation that’s going to become law from getting done. 

Kenen: There’s going to be something, like, really bad that comes out that somebody in the poor OLC office doesn’t catch, and it’s going to repeal, like, you know, the flag. 

Rovner: Yeah. We will see. All right my extra credit this week is from Mother Jones by Sophie Hurwitz. It’s called “.” And you may have heard that ICE [Immigration and Customs Enforcement] is spending $20 million to buy these gloves, which administer an electric shock at the touch of a button on the wrist for their officers. What makes them better than a Taser or other non-[lethal] device? Well, one Missouri police officer whose force uses them said the gloves “allow their wearer to inflict pain without leaving the sort of marks that could look bad to witnesses or leave an officer vulnerable to lawsuits.” In other words, they make it easier for people to inflict pain on others, whether warranted or not, without likely recourse. How very 2026. 

OK, that is this week’s show. Thanks to our editor, Emmarie Huetteman, and our fill-in producer-engineer this week, Zach Dyer. We also had production help from Taylor Cook. A reminder: What the Health? is now available on WAMU platforms, the NPR app, and wherever you get your podcasts — as well as, of course, kffhealthnews.org. Also, as always, you can email us your comments or questions. We’re at whatthehealth@kff.org. Or you can still find me on X , and on Bluesky . Where are you guys hanging these days? Alice? 

Ollstein: on Bluesky and on X. 

Rovner: Shefali. 

Luthra: on Bluesky. 

Rovner: Joanne. 

Kenen: Mostly on and on . 

Rovner: We’ll be back in your feed next week. Until then, be healthy. 

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Watch: Why Abortions Are on the Rise Since ‘Roe’ Was Overturned /courts/video-five-things-abortions-increase-since-roe-overturned/ Fri, 07 Aug 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2264199 Say you live in deep-red Louisiana, a state that has effectively banned abortion. It may be easier for you to get abortion pills now than before the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade. Here’s why — and what it means for future battles over abortion access.

And as a federal court mulls a case that could result in significant restrictions on a pill used in most abortions, healthcare providers say they have alternatives to preserve access even in states with bans in place. Read more here.

51ÊÓƵ Health News is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at 51ÊÓƵ—an independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 51ÊÓƵ Health News and is republished here under a .

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People With Disabilities Fear Service Cuts as Trump’s DOJ Questions Legal Protections /news/people-with-disabilities-fear-service-cuts-as-trumps-doj-questions-legal-protections/ Mon, 03 Aug 2026 09:00:00 +0000 /?p=2266682 Amanda DeSimone-Shabrack relies on a home healthcare aide to help her high-needs autistic 12-year-old son. Virginia’s Medicaid program covers the assistance, enabling her to work as both an education technology specialist and a professor, run errands, and keep Mason in the home.

That could change. In June, the Department of Justice issued saying federal disability rights laws don’t require states to provide services that allow people with disabilities to remain in their homes rather than institutions.

It’s a sharp reversal from 1999, when a held that unjustified institutionalization constituted discrimination under the Americans with Disabilities Act. Previous administrations have relied on that ruling to enforce civil rights for disabled people, but the Trump administration says that long-held interpretation is wrong.

Advocacy groups say legal protections for about and 5 million children who have disabilities could be undermined, and they worry that the new interpretation may herald a return to forced institutionalization.

The stage is also now set for a legal fight between advocates, states, and the federal government. Some states with ongoing lawsuits challenging disability rights requirements are already citing the DOJ opinion in hopes it will help them prevail.

In a case in Texas, for example, that a rule instituting a 1973 civil rights law that led to community and home integration of people with disabilities is costly and infringes on states’ rights.

People like DeSimone-Shabrack are especially worried because, they say, the opinion follows a spate of White House and Republican-led initiatives that have already begun eroding hard-won protections for people with disabilities.

“I’m worried. Am I going to have to put him in an institution, and what’s that going to be like for him?” said DeSimone-Shabrack, whose personal home care help was recently reduced from 30 to 18 hours a week by the state. “As he gets older, am I going to be able to care for him without this support?”

The Department of Health and Human Services remains steadfast in enforcing federal civil rights laws, agency spokesperson Emily Hilliard said in an email.

“Our commitment to ensuring that individuals with disabilities are treated with dignity, afforded equal opportunity, and are able to meaningfully access community services remains unchanged,” she said.

But advocacy groups say the DOJ opinion could have sweeping repercussions. The opinion doesn’t change existing law, but advocates worry that HHS and the DOJ could begin that mandate integration for people with disabilities.

They’re concerned that agencies will stop enforcing disability laws that ensure people aren’t. HHS, for example, has historically investigated disability discrimination claims at hospitals and in states that get federal funding, enforcing compliance with home and community integration through . Disability rights experts say those agreements could now be imperiled.

And some states facing financial pressures may roll back Medicaid services that enable people with disabilities to stay in their homes and communities — a trend that’s already happening following last year’s passage of the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, which cuts a projected from the safety net program over a decade.

Democrats are seizing on the opinion, which was released in a DOJ memo, to portray President Donald Trump and Republicans as a threat to people with disabilities. Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-Ill.) and other Senate Democrats led the calling on the DOJ to rescind the opinion.

“The Trump Administration’s memo is an outrageous attack on the rights and independence of the disability community,” Duckworth said in a statement.

The DOJ didn’t return emails seeking comment.

According to the DOJ’s interpretation, regulations that give disabled people the right to demand certain services for daily living — bathing, mental health counseling, and financial budgeting help, for instance — and that require states to extend to mentally disabled individuals are unlawful, a view the agency acknowledged “is out of step with the common understanding of that decision within the federal courts.”

States may have legitimate reason to treat mentally disabled people in institutions, “including resource constraints, capacity limitations in community-based facilities, and safety concerns for both the patient and the community,” the memo reads.

The Supreme Court case, Olmstead v. L.C., has long shaped federal policy. And while it remains to be seen how courts will respond to the DOJ, some states seeking to curtail disability protections see the opinion as significant.

Consider the in federal court in the Northern District of Texas by Republican-led states arguing that an HHS rule about the integration mandate is unlawful. The lawsuit began with broader claims and 17 state plaintiffs. Following significant advocacy from the disability community, only Texas, Alaska, and Florida remain.

Following the new DOJ interpretation, the states filed documentation to inform the court about the memo as a new and relevant development. Similar documentation citing the memo has been filed in disability rights cases in Florida and New Hampshire, according to The Arc of the United States, a disability advocacy group.

Advocates for people with disabilities say the speed at which plaintiffs are citing the opinion underscores how it may be used to justify the erosion of protections.

“The administration’s attempt to dismantle decades of progress in community integration is alarming and inconsistent with federal disability rights laws and Supreme Court precedent as well as the critical enforcement work of prior administrations,” said , senior executive officer of legal advocacy and general counsel at The Arc.

Forced institutionalization led to human rights violations, segregation, and a eugenics movement in the late 19th and early 20th centuries that included involuntary sterilization.

Exposure of the abuses, legal battles, and an caused a major shift toward integration. Fewer than 1% of people with intellectual or developmental disabilities lived in state-run facilities in 2021, down from almost 30% in 1967, from the University of Minnesota’s , which maintains metrics on such long-term services and supports.

The Trump administration has already taken steps to reverse that trend, advocates say.

Trump signed that addresses homelessness by expanding involuntary treatment and institutionalization, reversing a championed by the Biden administration.

Much of the special education program office is moving from the Department of Education to HHS, raising concerns among advocates that the administration is reverting to a view that disabilities are a medical issue to be fixed rather than differences that can be accommodated.

And cuts in federal funding for Medicaid, a federal-state insurance program for people with low incomes or disabilities, also portend fewer resources and services. States have responded by reducing some optional benefits such as home health aides and support. In addition, qualifying for an exemption from the program’s work requirements, which take effect Jan. 1 in most states, will pose significant hurdles for people with disabilities.

The June DOJ opinion, advocates say, could accelerate the shift and result in court rulings that chip away at disability rights.

“While it doesn’t overnight change the law, it’s very troubling and very dangerous,” said , director of the Disability Rights Program at the American Civil Liberties Union. “It reflects a really deeply held disrespect for disabled people from this administration and a total lack of awareness of the lived experiences of people with disabilities who are living in their homes.”

Data shows there can be benefits to involuntary institutionalization. Relative to those voluntarily admitted, people with psychiatric illness who were involuntarily admitted “experienced greater improvements in symptoms and function,” according to a in Psychiatry, Psychology and Law, a peer-reviewed academic journal.

Deinstitutionalization has created new challenges. More hospitals have been forced to board people with psychiatric illness in emergency rooms because of a dearth of available beds. And moving people into home- and community-based living was supposed to be accompanied by an increase in outpatient care and treatment that never materialized, creating gaps in support.

But advocates for the disabled community say involuntary institutionalization and poses a higher risk of neglect and abuse.

, 57, of Cleveland, spent two years in a nursing home. She has spinal muscular atrophy, a genetic disease that kills motor neurons, leaving her able to move only part of her left arm and her head.

At the institution, she said, she felt bored and trapped and developed intense itching from scabies, which is caused by microscopic mites.

For more than a decade, however, she has lived in an apartment with the help of caregivers who come in the morning to get her dressed and ready and return to put her to bed. She works at a disability rights group, and her care is covered by Medicaid.

“The two years I lived in the nursing home, it was the most horrible time in my life,” said Kucera, who worries about the DOJ opinion on Olmstead. “My future is a shaking floor beneath me. With the stroke of a pen, they could get rid of everything I’ve built for myself.”

51ÊÓƵ Health News is a national newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about health issues and is one of the core operating programs at 51ÊÓƵ—an independent source of health policy research, polling, and journalism. Learn more about .

This article first appeared on 51ÊÓƵ Health News and is republished here under a .

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